US strategy is the same as during the Cold War (at this point we should probably start calling it the “previous” Cold War). Outspend the Russians until they reach a point where it is no longer tenable for them to continue to make war.
Seldom does the US get conflicts like the one in Ukraine where there’s relative moral, political, and strategic clarity. That’s why it’s particularly baffling to me why certain elements on the right are opposed to supporting Ukraine. It’s like we’ve been handed the opportunity to give a strategic adversary a black eye on the cheap while spending no American blood in the process. Kinda like wrapping up the Cold War and putting a tidy bow on it.
Not only that, but as I understand it, where that “money” is going to end up is in the coffers of the arms industry anyway. So it makes even less sense to me, as this seems very out of the ordinary. I thought the arms industry had better and more effective lobbyists.
It’s not baffling when one understands who supports certain elements on the right.
I was thinking baffling from the standpoint of our national interests…but I see what you’re saying.
Drop in the bucket compared to the billion Biden needs for Ukraine.
The Guardian feed
The U.S. spent about a billion dollars per day on its own various wars. No wonder Zelenskiy is frustrated.
Well, if he expects another government to give his country’s wars anything close to the same priority/funding as their own, then he’s unreasonable. I mean, how much did Ukraine spend funding the wars of other invaded countries where the invader wasn’t a substantial threat to themselves relative to how much they spend on their own?
Me too. This is why I go to the explanation that these certain elements are in Putin’s pocket somehow, either through direct bribery or kompromat.
Edit:
Person before Party
Party before Country
“national interests” you say? They don’t know the meaning of these words.
I vividly remember when our country was nearly united against the Soviet Union. We just don’t take the Russian threat as seriously. That could be a fatal error if Putin suceeds in Ukraine.
And most of the aid we’ve sent to Ukraine hasn’t been money; it’s been materiel. Things that were already bought and paid for, and that we bought a lot of. And the reason we bought a lot of it is precisely because we anticipated needing to use a lot of it to fight against Russia specifically.
The part where we’re sending it to Ukraine isn’t the part where we’re spending money; it’s the part where we’re finally getting return on our investment. Not sending it to Ukraine is like refusing to cash your paycheck, because you don’t want to do all the hard work to earn your pay.
jep, I think it’s hard to put a price on:
- “the RU black-sea-armada is pretty much inoperable now”
- Moskva sunk
- RU Submarine sunk
- 2000+ tanks destroyed
- 100s of aircraft destroyed
- 100s of AA systems destroyed
- 10s of 1000 of other war relevant vehicles destroyed (from trucks to personnel transporters)
- huge depletion of RU cruise missiles …
- last but not least - the HUGE PR fail of Russia having professional and hard hitting armed forces (than many believed before feb-2022)
Again, I’d call it “money wisely spent” by the US/EU et al.
Summary
I realised that the world had changed when Trump in his campaign openly called on “Russia, if you’re listening”, to hack the government e-mails of the former Secretary of State and publish them.
I remember thinking, “That’s it, he’s done.”
I was wrong. Turns out Republicans are fine with having their good friends in Russia hacking the Secretary of State and accessing confidential government documents, so long as it’s in the service of the Republican candidate.
Why this has happened, I don’t understand. But that episode, followed up by the Helsinki press conference, showed that for Republicans, the Russians are their friends.
Moderating
I let the conversation go for a bit, but this is an outrageous post for the breaking news thread.
Hidden and watch these political diatribes.
This topic was automatically opened after 9 minutes.
Quite right. My apologies. I will open a Politics and Elections thread on the matter, because this is an issue that has been occupying my thoughts for a while and I would welcome other comments.
New thread in P&E:
Western Countries better take note. Russia’s hackers or some other black hat got skills. I’ve read Ukraine online systems were fortified just before the war started. (It was a team that were working there in preparation for a massive cyber attack). This is a significant security vulnerability and needs to be identified and patched.
Guard feed
It’s just the first little step in a process, but the EU is open to eventually inducting Ukraine & Moldova, (and Georgia is a candidate).
Nice move while Russia is preoccupied in Ukraine. A few years ago an attack on Finland seemed absurd. However, their border is a security for Russia.
The Guardian