IIRC, it was the prospect of having to compete on a high-tech level they couldn’t hope to match that forced an already troubled USSR to reconsider their strategic position. SALT II for example, which lowered the offensive capability the Soviet Union had to spend to maintain and the USA capability they would have to try to defend against.
They’re in range - the front is in the Donetsk exurbs, maybe ~20ish km from the city proper and a more modern BM-21 Grad can hit out to maybe 40. Unlike Luhansk (the city), Donetsk (the city) has always been close to the front since 2014.
There have been sporadic news reports about Ukrainian artillery/rocket strikes in Donetsk city, including charges of hits on civilian areas like markets, more or less since the war started. This isn’t a novel development (the claims aren’t novel, anyway).
Sure, but those aren’t the choices this hypothetical Ukrainian mother faces. Her alternative scenario isn’t keep fighting vs. having a peaceful existence with plenty of the necessities under Putin as long as she salutes the right flag, sings the Russian national anthem, etc. Her alternative to continuing the fight is getting raped and killed by a Wagnerite or Kadyrovite, and having her baby shipped off to Siberia or some other place deep inside Russia to be raised by a Russian family.
Those were soldiers fighting invaders. The Russian soldiers in this war ARE the invaders and are willing to surrender in considerable numbers.
Maybe. But the tenuous hope that it might not be that way becomes more and more attractive the longer the very real and immediate deprivations continue.
If history is any guide, people can endure about four years of deprivation before hopelessness sets in. We aren’t even at the one-year mark yet.
Indeed.
Collateral damage will occur. Ukrainian doesn’t have much choice. Shelling is required to take Donetsk. The Russians are well known for using schools and other public buildings for headquarters.
They are storing equipment and supplies at a Nuclear power plant.
I would hope Ukraine avoids directly shelling civilians. But, some shells will hit those buildings.
We’ve had a few days of heavy snow and wind (and more to come today) here in the Pacific Northwest which caused widespread power outages. Crews worked nonstop through the night, in snow and wind, restoring power to thousands of people.
I’m just imagining people in Ukraine, trying to fix power grids while Russia is bombing the hell out of them. It’s heartbreaking and it’s all for nothing. Wars from 100 years ago are barely even remembered. Alliances change with each one. What a colossal waste of lives on all sides.
As somebody who moved from accommodated euroṕe to a 2nd world country (a country on par with Ukr in terms of development) I always get a “what-just-happened?” moment when I read those kinds of posts …
It shows me how far off-track our society have come in some circles…
(the answer to your insurmountable baby feeding problem is built into any woman’s anatomy) …
Well, not quite any woman. Some women can’t produce milk, or can’t produce enough milk, or can’t produce safe milk.
I agree, however, that ‘put your trust in a Russian regime being any better’ doesn’t look like anywhere near a safe bet.
And the concept of nurse maids ellude them when they consider other options. Having another woman nurse your child would shock many people and perhaps rightly so. Still its an option.
Why would it be rightly so? Wet nurses are indeed the traditional solution; and, while they were often exploited, they don’t need to be. While some women can’t produce enough milk for one baby, others can easily produce enough milk for two; and some can keep producing milk after their own child no longer needs it.
However, finding a wet nurse in a war zone, from which many women have evacuated and in which a lot of remaining women probably have been trying not to get pregnant since early last spring, might not be easy.
Some (many?) first world mothers today are overly very protective of what goes into their children, thats all I am saying. It opens up possibilities many would rather not consider or make them shutter to think of.
In a thread about war,let’s not get sidetracked by anatomy.
The point in my example of a mother and baby is to ask how average Ukrainian citizens are dealing with the stress, and how long they can keep it up. Which is why I asked if anybody knows what kinds of personal reactions are being posted on Ukrainian facebook pages to family and friends.
So let’s change my example of a mother and baby to any similar issue: Maybe a person caring for elderly parents, or a family with several small children who are traumatized from the shelling and wet the bed every night.
I’m asking about average people, with serious personal problems, which make it even harder to be heroic every day. I assume that there are millions of such people–many who have already fled, but many who cannot.
Right.
I am not arguing for Ukraine to capitulate. 
Getting a peace settlement is not the same as surrendering.
So, then we are back to 1. Putin dies. The idea is to give Putin a chance to claim Victory so he can save face and stop the war. Look, he was anticipating a roll-over, and now he is losing. Putin has been in charge since 2012, and all he did in those ten years prior is to walk into a contested and revolting Crimea. I assume that if he can get out of this expensive war, and save face, he will. Otherwise, we are back to 1. Putin dies”.
So, in a year or two the Russian military is exhausted. Why does Putin give up? He can recruit more men, he can build more stuff. Sure, not to the level of pre-war, but some. Do you think Putin will give up just because his Army is exhausted?
If there are no peace talks, the only options are 1. Putin Dies and 2. Ukraine surrenders.
Getting a peace settlement from Putin, before completely neutralizing his military, is the same as surrendering. Because that’s the only terms he’ll accept.
No, he can’t, because that’s all exhausted. If he could still build more stuff, it wouldn’t be exhaustion yet.
I didn’t mean the Russia army will be exhausted, I meant Russia will be exhausted. As in having burnt through its stockpiled ammunition and lost more than half of its prewar aircraft and armor, it cannot replace them at more than a fraction of current expenditures. Where some weapons systems that required imports of foreign technology are now simply irreplaceable due to sanctions. In short, where Russia is so weakened that the Ukrainians can simply push them out of the disputed territory by main force, and keep them out against any renewed assaults. It wouldn’t matter at that point if Putin was willing to fight forever and could keep some military effort going on a North Korean-level of regimentation indefinitely: the goals of the invasion would be lost.
Or to put it another way, what makes you think that Russia can simply outlast Ukraine? This ain’t WW2, where Stalin, Beria and the commissars could terrorize the soldiers and workers to keep going in famine conditions. As I said originally, you seem to be working from the premise that Russia has effectively infinite strategic depth.
Putin’s clusterfuck. It’s staggering to consider the Russian and Ukrainian deaths and injuries from this sick old Communist’s ambition.
I suggest reading the British (RUSI) pdf report linked in the quote.
Putin has been in charge since 1999. His shuffling back and forth between President and Prime Minister has been a constitutional fiction.