Sammy Sosa, get outta here

There is simply no way that Sammy Sosa is worth the trouble. Sure, he hits a lot of home runs, we can count on him for that. He lead our team in offensive statistics, hits, homeruns, rbi’s, was second in stolen bases. He’s a good offensive player.

He also drops a whole hell of a lot of routine pop flies, complains about playing for Chicago, complains that he can’t play well in April and May because it’s “too cold” here and then complains when we hesitate to pay him $18 million a year.

Guess what Sammy? You’re not worth it. At all. For $18 million a year, you’d better be good at everything you do on the field, and you’re not.

And it’s Sammy Sosa’s contract demands that kept the Cubs (I feel) from re-signing Mark Grace. They didn’t have the money to keep a veteran first baseman who wanted nothing more than to play for Chicago his whole life…because Sammy needs more money or else he’ll start whining that he never wanted to stay here in the first place.

What do you Cubs (or baseball fans) think? The Great Debate is this, weeks before opening day:

Sammy Sosa…stay or go?

jarbaby

I think you’re on the money, to a degree. The heart says, “Go!” while the head says, “Well, go as soon as we have someone to replace you.”

I used to think he was a standup buy, and his HR race with McGwire galvanized a baseball nation still torn by the prolonged strike. But since then, he’s gotten into more and more arguments with his manager. He’s sulked and whined, making him a stronger candidate for Sports Jerk than he was in the old days.

On the upside, yep - he does hit those homers, doesn’t he? And he’s not terribly old (32?), so I think he stands a good chance of hitting 500 HR. Hey, it could happen, especially in this era. Wouldn’t you like him to do that with the Cubs?

If I were a Cubs fan, I would be just as outraged as you. I’d just want to find someone better before I ran him out of town.

the scariest part of all dan, is that there’s ugly, frightening talk of bringing Gary Sheffield over. Great great great. Sheffield and Sosa on the same team. I hope their heads can fit through the clubhouse door.

It is a tough debate. If we had really good pitching, then hitting a lot of home runs would be important I guess, but our pitching isn’t so hot. We’ve got Wood (the on again off again phenom) and Lieber, really.

What we need is really good defense, good 1st base and outfield to make up for all the hits we allow.

I don’t think Sheffield will go there. No offense to the Cubs, but he wants to go to a ‘winner’ (paraphrasing his words), and until recently he had a list of only a few teams to which he’d like to be traded, like the Mets, Braves, and Cardinals. NY dropped out of that race, but I think he’s now open to going to other teams.

But whether or not he’d go to Chi is only part of it - who would pay him his money? I know the Cubs have some cash, but they’re not as rich as the Dodgers or as willing to pay players, are they?

But you can count on this: Whoever trades for Sheffield will not have to give up a lot, because he’s coming off as an arrogant, me-first head case. He’s devalued himself immensely in demanding a trade, no matter the reason. Because of that, I’d think teams could get him from the Dodgers at a lower rate.

In a way, Sosa’s situation looks the same, although he still has enough of a fanbase to offset too much junk. He could be had too, but the price for him to the Cubs would be a bit higher than Sheffield.

But don’t worry! I bet Sheff does not go to the Cubs!

I think the Cubs will keep him because Wrigley is a hitter’s parks and the bleacher fans love getting Cub home runs hit at them. The Cubs seem to keep sluggers whenever they can get their hands on them, like Sandbergh, Kingman and Durham. Seems like those are the only Cubs to hit more than 30 hrs in the last 25 yrs.

If they wanted to trade him, they should have last year. Maybe they could trade him for another slugger, but I don’t think it would be Sheff.

I’d trade Sosa for a couple decent arms any day. The Braves are built around pitching, the good teams manage to have at least one or two great pitchers, the Cubs haven’t had a decent pitcher since they gave up Maddux back in the early 90’s (in large part because they wouldn’t pay him what he was worth…).
But the main trouble with the Cubs has to do with how they are run, not who plays for them. Think on it: they had all the same advantages the Braves did in the mid-80’s, and which team took advantage of the situation? And when was the last time Cub farm teams were burning up the minors?
Keep Sammy; at least he entertains us. :slight_smile:

I don’t believe Gary Sheffield would OK a trade to the Cubs. And if he were in left with Sosa in right, I pity the center fielder who will have to cover 2/3 of the field.

The Cubs’ problems are greater than just bad pitching. Aside from Sosa, the offense is so weak that it’s laughable.

The Braves have some great pitchers, but they also have the Joneses and Javy Lopez to provide some offense.

The Cubs play Damon Buford a lot and sign free agents like Ron Coomer.

Well, I’ll weigh in with the dissenting opinion.

Sammy Sosa is an awesome ballplayer. He’s a devastating offensive force; he’s got power to spare and gets on base better than he ever has. The Cubs have dozens of players who can’t carry Sosa’s lampblack and you want to get rid of Sosa? Why not get rid of the clowns who can’t hit?

Sosa’s defense isn’t nearly as bad as Don Baylor would have you believe, and frankly, who cares if he whines? I’ll take the whiners who hit fifty home runs a year over the nice guys who hit ten homers any day of the week.

As to Mark Grace:

  1. He’s not very good anymore.
  2. He’s old.
  3. The Cubs have a top prospect in the minors, Hee Seop Choi, who’s every bit as good as Grace and is cheaper.

It is a universal truth of sports that teams tend to blame their problems on their best players. Why are Cubs fans complaining about Sammy Sosa and mourning the loss of MArk Grace when Sosa is a vastly superior player? For that matter, why did I hear lots of complaining about Sosa last year but no complaining about useless oxygen theives like Damon Buford, Willie Greene, and Joe Girardi? Why in the name of Christ did the Cubs let Jeff Huson play? And don’t even get me started on the pitching.

Sammy Sosa is the best player on the team by a very, very wide margin. If you get rid of him, you’ve gotten rid of the best player on the team, a player for whom the Cubs have no replacement. Trading him for really good prospects might work out, but thanks to Baylor The Bonehead, the ongoing dissension will kill the Cubs’ leverage. But then, this is the team that let Greg Maddux go.

[Moderator Hat: ON]

This is really more an opinion discussion than a Great Debate. So off to IMHO it goes!


David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator

[Moderator Hat: OFF]

Sheff has already said he would wave his ‘No-Trade’ clause for trades to Chicago Cubs, Cincinatti, Kansas City and Tampa, as well as Atlanta and NY.

Cheese Head-

Don’t forget Andre Dawson. He hit 49 HRs his first year with the Cubs (after coming from the Expos) Remember his first year salary? IIRC, it was around $500,000. It went up to two million the next, after he tied for the major league lead with McGwire’s 49.

As for Mark Grace, I’m gonna miss him. There’s something to be said for having a solid veteran on the team. He’s the last Cub playing for the team who’s seen 2 NL divisional playoffs.

Although the offensive numbers Sammy puts up are great, and he’s an exciting member of the team, the Cubs money is better spent on pitching. The Cubs have an amazing talent for getting rid of great pitchers. Maddux. Eckerseley (OK, he wasn’t a reliever at the time.) I would’ve prefered the Cubs keeping Maddux over acquiring Sosa any day. Oh well.

To slightly hijack the thread, I don’t think the Cubs have any great incentive in fielding a great team. I’m a Cubs fan, and the only team I’ve seen in the last two decades that had a chance at making it to the Series was the '84 Cubs. From a corporate point of view, why should they spend big bucks? People come to the park anyway. They spend their money supporting a generally crap team. And then management gets rid of people like Maddux, Palmeiro, Joe Carter, Eckersely, etc, etc, etc.

On one hand, I would love for Sosa to stay. On the other, as a Chicagoan I can’t stand people whining about an $18 million dollar salary. I say, get rid of him and find at least one ace pitcher.

But that ain’t gonna happen. Wait 'til next year. :slight_smile:

Bless you, jarbabyj and pulykamell. I would be happy to see Sosa go and see some young talent in his place (hey! it’s a rebuilding year. Didn’t we learn anything from the Sox?), and it pains me to see Gracie gone. The team needs some leadership, dammit. I don’t see Sosa leaving anytime soon though…he’s too much of a draw to Wrigley.

Speaking of Wrigley, did anyone else stand in line for tickets, or am I the only loser?

It pains me as well. I realize that he’s getting older, and he’s definitely not the GREATEST PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, but at some point, after statistics and scores and whatever, we DO need leadership. Grace played the game how it’s supposed to be played, AS A TEAM. He worked to be the best for his team, and Sammy works to be the best for Sammy. He’s concerned with hitting home runs and that’s it.

People complain that baseball isn’t what it used to be, but the reason for that is that we praise singular achievement over team achievement.

Judging by the line outside the night before, you weren’t the only one. My husband got us opening day tickets, which is exciting, even though it’ll probably be thirty degrees. :smiley:

jarbaby

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Prrrrecisely. Grace is a solid all-around, old-time ballplayer. That’s why I dig him so much. Got tickets to a couple of Arizona games so I can cheer for him anyway.

Sorry, I meant the only Doper to stand in line. I went to the opening day game last year and it snowed. Good luck with that!

Veterans? You want veterans? Well, that’s Arizona, sure enough. Let’s see…

Pitching - Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, and any number of relievers who give no relief whatsoever.
1st Base - The self-same Mark Grace.
2nd Base - Jay Bell
3rd Base - Matt Williams
Center - Steve Finley
Left - Luis Gonzalez

Somebody want to get a walker in here?

One of those relievers is Mike Morgan, a four-decade pitcher who’s like 500 years old. And pitching for his major-league record 12th team! Now there’s a veteran for ya…

I am sick of Sammy Sosa. I remember him in his non-glamour days, and his quicness to complain has always bothered me. Even McGuire kinda bugs me. Sure, he is a great person in all respects, but I am kinda tired of the “HR Kings”. I think, and have thought, that people like Griffey and A.Rod should be considered the kings of baseball. Griffey has had 50 homers at least 3 or 4 seasons now, and he is one of the best out fielders in the game. Neither Sosa or McGuire can claim that title for their positions. Another thing, Griffey is very family-oriented. I must admit, Big mac has quite a bit of love for his son, but Sosa seems to be in it for the $$$. I am really tired of Mr. Sosa getting as much attention as he is. Grrrr… :frowning:

I hope you’re kidding! Remember why Griffey left Seattle? To be closer to his family… in Florida? And where is he now? Cincinnati? And that’s how far from Florida? Uh-huh. Could it be he went there for money? Griffey is not an angel. He’s a great ballplayer, but he’s in it for the money at least as much as Sosa is.

If you’re going to put on this “I’m doing it for my family” act, then you damn well better act on it. If he had been honest and said, “I don’t like it here in Seattle; they can’t pay me what I want,” there would have been no problem. But he, IMO, hid behind this faux family crap. After all, if he was so hell-bent in being closer to his family, why the hell didn’t he fly them to Seattle to live there? :slight_smile:

And A-Rod?? Why do you consider him to be a king of baseball? He can hit homers and for average, too, no question about that. He’s also a great player. But please don’t kid yourself: If you have a problem with Sosa’s salary demands, what do you think of Rodriguez’s?? He could have stayed in Seattle - a team that, BTW, DID do awfully well last season - but elected to sign with Texas. Why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$!

(emphasis mine)

You’re kidding, right? The Cubs have quite a bit of money. In my opinion, they should be one of the top 5 pay rolls in baseball. If anyone actually believes that the Cubs are strapped for cash because of Sosa (or any other player) then management has really fooled you!

That’s why he’s still in the minors and Matt Stairs is going to be starting at first?

Regarding Maddux, isn’t the reason he got away because we gave the $ to Sandberg instead? Looking back I’d rather still have Maddux, but Sandberg was/is my favorite player, so I’m glad he stayed (I could be wrong, I was young at the time).

Question to the Dopers that get a little more coverage on the Cubs than I do:

What’s the word on Kerry Wood? Is he returning to old form?

And . . .

What about Corey Patterson? I’ve heard a buzz that he’s the next Griffey.

I kind of wish we had traded Sosa last year when there were rumors that they could have traded him to the Yanks for Drew Henson (Michigan QB), Soriano and some other prospects. That would have made for quite a future if any of them panned out.

Thou shalt not diss Big Mac!!!:mad::mad::mad: