They were also free of that crap when we overthrew a democratic secular government and installed the murderous puppet.
Is that true? I don’t know enough about that lovely little incident in our history. I believe you as I believe he was believed to be far too friendly to the Soviets and later we actually supported the far scummier Taliban in our fight against the Soviets.
I was not suggesting we use military force, I hope that came through. I was pointing out that there does not appear to be a reasonable answer.
Actually, let’s trim this down just a little.
It’s Saudi Arabia.
I don’t think much else needs to be said.
Their foreign policy was their own concern. As was what they did with their oil. All the time we mistook nationalism for communism in Africa, Asia and south America, with tragic results.
We should have left well alone in Afghanistan in the 80’s unless we were prepared to stay the course and not hand the country by default to a bunch of murdering war lords that made the Taliban look like liberators.
Didn’t think you were advocating violence.
I have but one question.
Who cares?
The backward ways countries like this employ to deal with their populace are frankly, none of our business. If we need to do business with them, then we do, we don’t have to dance with them at the ball.
If your local grocer were in to kiddie porn, but had prices you couldn’t beat anywhere else, you’d still go to him if you needed to save money.
Sure, you can grow your own food, but it’ll take years to perfect it and until then, you need to go to the grocery.
This entire thing is about reality. This is the reality there. As a human and an American, I’m utterly disgusted. As a realist, I think that this has been going on for 2000 years and will continue for 2000 more and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it, or frankly SHOULD do about it until the people of a country such as theirs ask us to.
The solution, overall, as What Exit suggests is one the world doesn’t have the stomach for. The culture on the whole is cancerous and cannot withstand the rigors of western scrutiny because there is too much ingrained fundamentalist religion. As with all cancers, there is a complete and final solution, the direction the solution goes is on the people.
As for the woman in the OP, if you don’t want to get eaten by the lion, stay out of his pen. It sounds callous, and I suppose it IS, but if you don’t KNOW or you know and think that someone is going to make an exception, well, I suppose it’s your back,
Of course rape is wrong, but the problem here is what the society holds to be the standard for acceptable behavior and punishment. It’s not only Muslims that blame the victim and think that the girl was “placing herself in a bad position” asking for a ride. Some think that maybe she was after money. People are quick to rush to judge, but these are by and large the same stereotypes we cling to. It’s a process that will take time, and I was heartened by some of the comments of the Muslims that don’t agree with how this was handled.
See? :smack:
I largely agree with you, but there are two sides to this coin. I don’t think anyone would argue that India is a worse place because the Brits wiped out the Thugees, do you?
I don’t understand the hatred…
FACT: A man cannot be guilty of rape unless 4 (I think) male eyewitnesses attest to his raping.
This is fair because I imagine a woman wouldn’t be convicted of rape unless 4 men also witnessed it.
So…no rape.
She, however, admitted to having sex with a man she isn’t married to. In addition, she is pregnant…PROVING she is a disgusting, evil adulterer.
So, she is punished for being an adulterer.
Very logical…how could you disagree?
Now…let’s get back to talking about bringing back scourging and crucifixion for financial executives…
After reading the article, what strikes me most is that the woman CONFESSED to being raped. Yep, it was her fault. :mad: Now, if she is guilty of being raped, and deserves to be imprisoned and lashed, then I think that her attackers deserve the death penalty.
Nope. I don’t give those barbaric assholes the benefit of even the slightest “them’s the rules” slack. There are some acts or laws that are so fucking evil that if you perpetrate / enforce them, prior warning doesn’t mean shit. And anyone who violates said evil laws gets absolutely no flack from me. None, not even of the “you knew they were going to chop off a part of your body when you tried to escape from slavery, so you can’t complain now” variety. There’s some vile shit that goes on in the world, and as a rule, it’s crystal clear where all our animus and censure–all of it–should be focused. Especially when the really egregious examples occur.
Anyway, it’s my personal policy, in the Stratocaster handbook and everything.
She’s fortunate not to have been punished again after the lashing, for engaging in S&M.
NO NO NO!
There was no rape…if there was rape there would have been 4 male witnesses!
She is a disgusting, filthy, evil adulterer…of that we are certain…she admitted to it! Even if she didn’t…she’s unmarried and pregnant!
Sheesh, you people. Is logic a foreign concept for you all?
As it should be, because you are exactly right. I would venture to say that MOST victims of crimes could have been more careful, but so what? Basically what people are saying here is that not ONLY is it just too damn bad that this woman got gang-raped (because she should have known better) but that it’s also too damn bad that she is the one who was punished for it (because she should have known better). That goes way beyond blaming the victim.
I can see what you are trying to do here. I’ll take the bait.
Yes you can judge other cultures and you can also judge our culture. And all cultures come up short in their own ways. We may agree that we find American culture is better but it is not absolutely better than everything else.
Haa!
The problem is that no one in this thread has seriously suggested anything of the sort. The best advice is get the fuck out of Saudi Arabia. I agree that this has been despicable from beginning to end. The woman did not get what was coming to her.
Nevertheless, it is not surprising that that backward culture did this, and if it didn’t surprise me, it sure as shit shouldn’t surprise her. You seem to take this as blaming the victim. It’s more of a pessimistic outlook on what life must be like there, at least from me.
Of course.
What do we do next? Invade the jungles and stop cannibalism? There are wayyyy too many in differences in the world to be able to control, much less worry about them. The best thing we can do is put political pressure on those that have the power, but I’m not looking for any results.
I’m sure there’s a some people in another country chatting somewhere saying, “Can you believe they’re allowed to purchase and own hand-guns and have abortions?”
The Humanity!?!?!
I’m not so sure of that . . . aren’t there still areas in Africa where Arabs are enslaving blacks?
The most appropriate analogy I see is as The Flying Dutchman put forward, with racism. Have peacable solutions to racism been found? I believe so. Could a solution to this be found? I I believe so even more.
I may well stand corrected, but I don’t think any black woman in the worst period of the height of world racism could have suffered this kind of absolute atrocity. I have little doubt there was much rape and abuse, but to be punished for it afterwards?
Why was racism so bad and this is somebody else’s problem? Why was South Africa such a big deal?
w… what the fuck? Are you fucking serious? jock, these women are born into this. They have NO CHOICE. I understand there are starving people and people in wars and they seriously lack choice too and that’s terrible in its own right, but this is… I really struggle to even try describe how wrong and disgusting this is. Do you think the women in a society like that can maybe save up and buy an airticket out of there? Where to? Do you think they even have the education to know what something exists beyond the desert? Could they even physically just run away? Where can they run too? The desert? The shelter of a neighboring country with similar laws?
And basically saying women there should shutup and “go with the flow”… that’s not a solution.
I think the reason this story troubles me so much is not just the hateful crime of rape (or gangrape for that matter), but the crime that followed… the “justice”.
This doesn’t equate with regular cannibalism. This is chopping off someone’s leg, eating some and then forcing them to eat some too.