And if she hadn’t accepted a ride and had walked home alone (or been followed by said men)? “You don’t walk around unescorted as a woman in Saudi Arabia!”
I’ve reread them several times and I am just not getting that impression from them.
No one said this. The opener to the shocking post was maybe she was being charged with gross stupidity, followed immediately by a rolleyes. I thought the implication here was fairly clear, and it had nothing to do with blaming the woman.
The idea that a woman should not be punished for this is so obvious, yet the idea that kambucta doesn’t agree with you is also your gut read on the post… weird. To me it reads as a sardonic commentary on Saudi Arabia precisely because this is so obviously wrong.
How would stupidity enter into then? It came from the blue, having nothing to do with the charges, and the post reads as a scold to anyone who could have behaved so foolishly.
I’m not the only one who read kambuckta’s post that way (see Shayna). And this, from calm kiwi:
…is exactly what I was reacting to as well, and how you aren’t inferring the same is a mystery to me. It’s a lite version of kambuckta’s post.
Grrrrr. Don’t they realize what this means? It’s admitting that they’re a bunch of fucking animals who can’t control themselves. Is that what they think is natural? I consider it sub-fucking-human.
My guess is that if she had not “confessed” be being raped, she would have been honor-killed by her younger brother for shaming the family.
How often have we been able to eliminate mistreatment of black people in another country and what mechanisms did we use?
We don’t have the benefit of a global communications infrastructure pre-1865, but c’mon, do you believe shit like this didn’t happen under institutionalized African slavery?
Boycotts etc against South Africa. Constant media attention.
I think there was more to it than that. It helped that blacks are a substantial majority of the population. It’s very different when you’re dealing with a society that almost entirely subscribes to the discrimination.
Blaming religion for this atrocity reminds me of George Carlin’s routine about the NYPD instituting additional training after cops were convicted in the Louima incident. Basically, he said what was painfully obvious to everyone who didn’t happen to be in the NYPD: When you get to the point of sodomizing a guy with your nightstick, you’re wayyyy beyond whatever help a training course could have to offer.
I’m no fan of Islam. I think it’s got a lot of unanswered questions, too few of which are even being seriously considered by the Muslims who could make a difference if they wanted to. Still, Islam doesn’t condone this by a long shot. You don’t need religion for rapists to do subhuman bullshit. Religion doesn’t even help them explain it. Whatever their justifications, they were monsters before they were Muslims.
The sad fact is that SA has a lot of what we need and want. Look at Sierra Leone. Plenty of black people are killed and oppressed over conflict diamonds, but we still buy them. And we can live without diamonds. Until we advance solar, nuclear, and electric energy a whole hell of a lot more than we have, we’ll die without oil. That makes us a whole lot more willing to see things from the Saudis’ point of view, with Exhibit A being some of the posts in this thread. :eek:
Well I am just telling you how I read it. The post reads as if it were obvious her crime was being stupid, which is a play on how it is the woman’s fault as a matter of law. It was sarcastic, sardonic. I cannot say that for calm kiwi’s post, but whatever.
OK.
I agree with the realist part of your post.
I disagree with the “nothing we SHOULD do”, because it’s only half the story. There is also “nothing we SHOULDN’T do”. In other words, it’s reality, and if we feel like changing it we should, if we don’t feel like changing it, we shouldn’t.
Religions are what the religious do in its name irrespective of what interpretation they put on the mumbo jumbo. Islam in many of its popular incarnations justifies the brutal oppression of women. To argue otherwise is just No True Scotsman.
& people wonder why we should become energy independant & quit allowing immigration from middle eastern countries?
People over there have been goofy for thousands of years & we let them come here & bring their goofyness with them.
http://www.transformmi.com/Dearborn-House-of-Prayer.cfm
In the City of Hamtramck, Michigan, just east of Dearborn, two years ago the call to Muslim prayer was passed by voters. Hamtramck now has the distinction of being the first city within the United States that has permitted the Islamic call to prayer. Five times a day through loud speakers from Islamic Mosques, prayers to Allah are being released into the airways of our state. These prayers to Allah are impacting the atmosphere and the anti-Christ spirit and mindset is being tolerated. It is even being embraced by the people of our nation, while our Christian rights and heritage are being challenged in the courts and our rights are slowly being taken from us. Our response as the church can not be to stand by apathetically and allow the Islamic agenda to advance.
In 2007 we were told that the Islamic leaders in Michigan have a goal to make Michigan the first Muslim state in America by the year 2015. We can not wait to make a stand against this in 2014; but must be vigilant and begin NOW raising up the standard in prayer seeking the LORD for the right strategies.
Where is the ACLU , I’ll tell ya, as long as it isn’t Christian they don’t care.
Not that I take your bipolaresque rantings seriously but:
Meanwhile - here’s a clue that might help your blood pressure. there is no God, there is no Allah. It is all nonsense and the sooner the human race grows the fuck up and stops believing in the mythology of bronze age savages and iron age barbarians the better things will be.
You’re preaching to the choir here. I’m an atheist, and I happen to agree with you about Islam oppressing women. Still, even I draw the line at saying Islam is OK with men raping women. Rape goes beyond any religious belief. I mean, are you cool with every single thing atheists ever do? Because I’m not. We fuck up too.
We don’t do it in the name of atheism and besides I said Islam is okay with the brutal oppression of women, not specifically with rape.
If a culture and a legal system (in which judges have incredible latitude) based on a religion defines being raped as adultery, as it has done in this case (and then punishes the victim worse than the assailants) then I’m quite happy to blame Islam.
It’s the pointed tip of the spear that is the oppression of women under Islam in Saudi.
Ya, But reincarnation is as real as Carnation milk.
For all of those who think I am some sort of misogynistic arsehole applauding the actions of the Saudi authorities, yer’ wrong.
I submitted my original post just to highlight the perils that Saudi women experience in their everyday lives, that something as simple as getting a lift in a car (that most western women would take safely for granted) could end up being a life-threatening experience.
FTR, I am a woman who just thanks the Ogs that she was born into a society where it’s mostly OK to get a ride. where rape is something that can be reported to the police without fear of reprisals, and where getting an abortion as a result of a rape is simply a matter of going to the local doctor.
I am in NO WAY blaming the woman in this incident. I was merely pointing out that the very nature of Saudi society is such that all of the ‘events’ were inevitably going to lead to the conclusion they did in fact lead to…and that the woman involved should also have been aware of the consequences. No, it isn’t ‘right’, nor is it in any way decent or ethical, but it IS the way of life in Saudi Arabia.
And we can rail and rally as much as we like and it ISN’T going to change their laws and mores and social practices one little bit.
Are all you fuckheads happy now. 
Exactly my point on limiting their immigration
Its rather amusing that there is not a single cite for this story. Nor has anyone asked for one. Having lived in S Arabia for two years, many of the stories were just that; stories. Not a land of milk and honey by an stretch of imagination, but I would like to see a cite. Even if its Jihadwatch.
Edit: yes I just saw it. I would however like to read the actual court transcript. My own experience with Newspapers reporting of court cases, they manage to mangle the facts 100% of the time.
Dude, stop equating your utter shit with my shit. No way do I want to be shunted into your sociopolitical basket.
You’re on your own.