Nonsense. There are nearly as many places to keep meds as there are people.
Some folks use pill organizers. Some don’t . Some women keep their organizers in their purse. One of several purses they probably own. Some in their nightstand. Some in their bathroom. Some in drawers in the closet. etc.
A criminal mastermind intending to kidnap, and keep alive, an old person might think of their meds. But for younger folks who don’t take chronic meds, the very idea may not occur to them. I left home after college, so age 22. At that time neither my parents, nor my sibs, nor I took any chronic meds. I’m reasonably smart, but I’d probably not have thought of that if I was a criminal plotting a kidnapping.
My real belief in this case, like in most kidnappings, is that the perps intend to keep the victim alive only so long as to establish the idea in the minds of the family that there’s a reason to pay ransom. Once that’s in process, killing the victim is the most logical and efficient thing to do. Otherwise they make a great witness for the prosecution. Plus just the hassle of holding a prisoner in improvised surroundings. The sooner they’re dead the sooner you don’t have to feed them, have them shit, keep them quiet & out of sight, etc., etc.
Ref @Dallas_Jones, that’s not too farfetched. A planned burglary that got out of hand and turned into a murder.
But if so the perp was pretty darn cool about ad libbing getting out of the house with the body. Bodies, even those of elderly scrawny old ladies, are not easy to move solo. And It seems the victim wasn’t one of the 90lb scrawny stick-figure birds. Not obese, but still of normal adult weight for height.
My knowledge of kidnapping is very indirect, from working for a company that sold kidnap insurance and occasionally hearing about how it worked. But my understanding is that the victims often are recovered for a ransom.
This is not a typically kidnap case for a lot of reasons. And i, also, think she’s probably dead by now. But not because that’s standard operating practice for kidnappers.
Another side note: Did you notice her home? That sucker (purchased in the 1970s) is huge, considering that Savannah has just the two siblings. Dad was apparently doing pretty doggone well in the mining business–although it’s possible that it was built to include room for the grandparents.
Ransom notes also provide evidence. And leaving slowly, carrying a body, is a risk. Also, the body can contaminate them with forensic evidence. Leave DNA on their car, their clothes, wherever they stash it.
I think if they’d killed her during the grab, they would have dropped the body and run. That’s much safer than taking the body and sending ransom notes.
Less potentially profitable however. Tradeoffs, there’s always tradeoffs. Decisions decisions, and no scriptwriter to tell you what to say or do. Real crimin’ is hard.
I sorta think that if they’d intended a burglary and ended up with a murder, they’d be likely to leave the body, grab some loot and run. IOW, do as much of their original plan as they still could. Just as a matter of mental inertia.
OTOH, if they’d intended a kidnap and instead ended up with a murder, they’d also more or less follow their original plan as best they could. Which was to carry the old lady out to their vehicle and go, leaving any valuables behind. For the same inertia reasons; stick to the familiar.
Since she’s gone and the goodies are still in the house, this strongly suggests it was planned as a kidnapping, no matter what the victim’s status was as she was loaded into the van. Alive, dead, or slightly injured.
Separate point:
The authorities said they found “blood drops” on the front stoop. Stuff they actually didn’t notice for the first few trips in and out of the house. Suggesting there wasn’t much there. Most of the quick easy ways to kill somebody leave a leaky mess which would suggest there’d likely be larger puddles of blood at the site of the killing and along whatever route they used to get her from e.g. the bedroom to their vehicle.
Old people with weak skin bruise and cut very easily. If they found just a few drops, that suggests she was alive and only slightly hurt leaving the house. e.g. zip ties cut into her wrists.
The ultra-wealthy, and presumably less well-off people, are increasing security precautions as a result of the Guthrie kidnapping and notoriety on social media.
I found it interesting that one of the security features mentioned was a planting of sour orange trees, which produce menacing spikes. As it happens, I have a number of such trees (Poncirus trifoliata) in pots. Since they’re supposed to be hardy to below zero, I was planning to plant them out on our property this year. Maybe I can use them in strategic spots to deter or at least punish intruders.*
*at a previous location, we used a hedge of thorny rugosa roses to discourage corner-cutters from trooping across our front garden and lawn.
Anyone living rurally in hidden areas are at risk.
It’s twofold…if you’re hidden you’re harder to find. But if you are found or located by word of mouth you’re easier to home invade.
We gated the front of our long drive., after a few lookyloos made me nervous. It’s auto lock. We have to buzz you in. No intercom you can curse at or order fries on. But we have a motion alarm. We generally know who is expected and listen for the motion alarm. If it’s unexpected we ignore or if he’s willing and around my son will go down here.
We put a game camera down there but don’t bother since we found what mostly causes the alarm was wildlife. The odd human we didn’t recognize.
I do worry someone will just climb the fence and walk thru the woods. It’s according to how familiar with the terrain they are whether they would. But, If there’s a will there’s a way.
I don’t have ring cameras. I have a couple OG security cameras. I can see the area the security light would light up if someone walked through, between the house and barn. It’s s not moveable.
We have alarms on the doors. Those were added when I sleep walked so much. So to keep problems in, not out.
Screwy, but it’s our system. And we’re(safely) well armed.
I’m checking out of this thread until I see that the title has been changed to indicate there has been a resolution, one way the other. I hope it will be a positive one.
A recently news story said they believe one of the gloves they found was worn by the suspect. If it was worn by the suspect, would there be enough DNA in it? I’m thinking the only thing in the glove would be a very small amount of sweat. But perhaps that’s good enough.
There’s a decent chance that whoever entered the Guthrie home had been there before and was familiar with the property. I wonder if the police have been able to track down any recent visitors.
Wouldn’t it be diabolical for a serial killer to get a job working for a home security company? It gives them insight into the layout of a victim’s home, and the limitations of their home security system.
(Kind of like the guy who likes child porn so he gets a job with the police investigating the stuff. Is it weird that I wonder if this exists?)
I have not been following this story closely, but, um, WTF is wrong with these searchers? Just casually discarding gloves all over the place near a major crime scene?
If only there were some kind of receptacle in which you could deposit used gloves…
Interesting. If the DNA matches somebody in a database, then they have a provisional identity for the kidnapper. Which ought to help locate that suspect.
OTOH, if there’s no database match the DNA is of no value whatsoever in locating the suspect. Once they arrest somebody based off other sleuthing it’d sure be helpful to implicate or exonerate that POI. But not before.
My point is simply that on TV a DNA sample always leads to an identity which pretty quickly leads to an arrest. 'Tain’t necessarily so IRL.
[quote="Moriarty, post:193, topic:1027414"]
(Kind of like the guy who likes child porn so he gets a job with the police investigating the stuff. Is it weird that I wonder if this exists?)
[/quote]
IIRC you are a defense attorney by trade. It's hardly surprising you've though of lots of ways for baddies to be bad. Kinda occupational hazard I'd say.
Am I wrong in thinking almost everybody now has , at least, a cousin who has sent off their DNA to an ancestry website? My 23andMe profile has at least half a dozen relatives who could finger me if the cops had my DNA (of course, they’d already have an exact match in that database for me).
It can be painstaking as hell but it’s been done. They can find the match of a blood relation and build a family tree and then start to eliminate the possibilities based on alibis.
