Ok, then if we don’t have to worry about Frodo, the game is in the bag. I can retire as King of Eriador, take the remains of my army north, with some Gondorian stonemasons and smiths, some Rohirrim scouts for my new lands and a couple of thousand war brides, and found my new city along the banks of the Baranduin.
Of course, without Gandalf to take the Eagles to Mount Doom and pick up Sam and Frodo after the fact, they most likely die there.
Besides the fact that they’re working for Saruman in the first place? (Genetic experiments, loves discipline and violence and technology, they’d love him!)
Of course, even if you could convince them to join you, even 1000 Space Marines would have a hard time killing the [del]bloodthirster[/del] Balrog.
They wouldn’t have to worry about the Balrog; Galdalf killed it before Skald killed him. I’m pretty sure that was the last one.
Chimera, once the one Ring is destroyed, can’t you just send out a unit on the highest-speed transport you’ve got (presumably jeeps of some sort) to Orodruin to try and find Frodo and Sam? It’s probably a couple of hours to get there, but then the Eagles didn’t teleport there either; it took time.
If your jeep unit can’t find them, well, that’s sad, but I don’t see the future of Middle-earth as significantly changed. Hobbiton will have to find another mayor.
On the other hand, I’m not sure how successful you’ll be as King of Eriador. If your mercs had wanted to be farmers, they’d have stayed home. The Rohirrim have had the opportunity to expand northward for centuries, and haven’t. The hobbits and Breelanders aren’t going to take kindly to your take-over, and Faramir is not a wuss, nor are the surviving Rangers (that’s their territory you’re claiming). In fact, the latter are already pissed off at you because you’re allied with the guy who smoked Aragorn. And two of them are Elrohir and Elladan, the sons of Elrond. Which means they have Elves to back them up.
Without your mercs, you’re going down. Hell, even with your mercs, how are you going to re-supply? Skald’s funding has stopped; he has his entertainment package and is no longer interested. Are you going to do a Saruman on Eriador and industrialize the area? How do you think Tom Bombadil and the Old Forest will take to that? You have no fossil fuels, no petroleum products. Your advanced technology is pretty much going to be a bunch of paperweights.
I think your reign is doomed.
I don’t think you wait until the Ring is destroyed to set out. We have the dates from the Appendix. Part of the reason it’s best to be hands-off on Frodo is to make sure he gets there on the same day.
I’m not sure it’s possible, but it’s worth a shot.
Also, while Sam should be rescued if possible, I’m not convinced saving Frodo’s life is a mercy–even when Eagles did it.
As for Chimera’s reign being doomed without resupply, I’d certainly bring him home, that being implicit in the deal. Of course, if he wants tocome my vassal king of Middle-earth instead, he’ll have to make a business case.
Yeah, but how are you going to set across Mordor in a rescue mission before the Ring is destroyed without the risk of drawing attention to Frodo and Sam? I don’t think you can sneak a jeep through the mountains, and do you really want a small unit trying to attack Morgul Vale? It’s the Black Gate or Morgul Vale to get in to Mordor. Maybe you start a jeep run across Mordor as soon as the Black Gate opens and the hordes of Orcs come pouring out, but it’s going to draw attention. If I were Sauron, I’d send Nazgul after it. If the jeep and its occupants managed to take out my Nazgul, I’m gonna be paying pretty close attention to that jeep, and wondering where the heck it’s going.
I don’t see how you do this without putting the Ring Bearer’s mission at risk. Better to lose Sam and Frodo then to do that.
Actually I was thinking the other day that The Rat Patrol could handle the task.
The Rat Patrol never runs out of gas or ammo. I don’t see why this would change in Mordor.
Hell, just replace the Fellowship with The Magnificent Seven. They were inexpensive.
I said I didn’t think it was possible. At most one could send a small but well-armed team on LAVs to try to move in quickly, but frankly I’m not hopeful.
That said, I think you may have to allow the attempt, though perhaps not for the reasons one might think. As you observed upthread, a goodly number of mercs will know the story, and assuming that most of them aren’t total bastards, they won’t be easy with the idea of leaving Frodo & Sam without any hope of rescue. (Even though that was clearly book!Frodo’s thought; he realized long before Sam did – perhaps as soon as the Breaking of the Fellowship – that the quest would cost his life.) If half a dozen guys are willing to volunteer for this mission, you might want to let them just for morale’s sake.
ETA: On further thought you have to let 'em die. No resupply of fuel and no air support means that the LAVs are not going to be able to make the round trip. The only way to save Frodo & Sam is to get somebody to go to Galadriel (or Radagast, but he’s a wanker) and get her/him to get the Eagles to intervene.
I agree on sending the team; I just don’t see how you can do it prior to the destruction of the Ring. For that matter, there are probably men among your mercs who would want to go to get the Ring for themselves. You can not allow any of your guys anywhere near the Ring Bearer before he achieves his mission, and I don’t think you can allow your guys into Mordor at all prior to the Ring’s destruction without risking the mission’s failure, even if they could get into Mordor (which I’m not at all convinced they could do). I don’t see any possibility of a mission’s starting prior to the Destruction.
Best to appeal to Galadriel. Won’t be hard to get volunteers to try to talk to her.
But getting her to talk to them, not so much. She’s not going to be impressed with high tech. She’s seen the Trees, for Pete’s sake.
I wasn’t suggesting any use of tech. There is no tech advantage in this situation. Whoever goes to her to appeal for help for Frodo just has to tell her what’s up. She’s Galadriel; you can’t lie to her. (I’m not convinced you can even lie to yourself in her presence.) She’s not going to appreciate the reasons behind Gandalf et al’s being murdered, but that’s hardly the messenger’s fault; she won’t hold it against them or decide not to help rescue Frodo because of it.
I’m not convinced any of your mercs would ever be permitted in her presence. If you’ll recall, the Fellowship itself had some trouble in getting to see Galadriel, and the Galadrim have long been distrustful of Man.
My point about high tech is that they’re not going to let your guys in to see her on the basis of gee-whiz technology, and yeah, actually they probably are going to hold Gandalf et al’s death against any messengers you send. They have absolutely no reason to talk with your guys until after they’ve demonstrated their good intentions by making it possible for Frodo to destroy the Ring, at which time it’s a moot point (although I personally would still love to meet Galadriel). They have no reason to differentiate between you, evil Istari/Elf/Dwarf/Man/Hobbit-killer Skald, and the mercenaries you are responsible for bringing to this world.
Your guys are never going to get in her presence in the first place. The best you could do would be to have your guys tell Haldir or whatever other sentry they meet (assuming they allow them to live long enough to talk) that the Ring will be destroyed on March 25, and it might be a good idea to send some Eagles to pick up Sam and Frodo then.
You left out Ent killer. I’m surprised at you. And besides, you should have said murderer.
Anyway, I think we’re arguing the exact same point. Clearly the vile bastard responsible for setting all this in motion isn’t going to try to get help from Galadriel; if he wanted to save Frodo he’d do it himself, and anyway he knows better than to be around the likes of her. But if you’re noble enough to try to avert the disaster Imaginary!Skald set in motion, you can argue that the original festival of horrors was not your idea in the first place.
And of course you don’t go into Lorien armed. There’s simply no point.
Yeah, yeah, gnawer, biter, hacker, burner, destroyer and usurper. I forgot the Ent.
You can argue the nobility of your motives all you want, but you’re gonna be arguing it to a sentry, not Galadriel herself. That’s my point.
I dunno, I’ve just started re-reading the books for the first time in 30 years. Did the ground fall away at the Black Gate like in the movies? If so, then no vehicle patrol. If not, then I’d still want several vehicles, because not every Orc just vanished like a soap bubble. Even then, it’s likely to take a day or more to get to the mountain over rough, hostile terrain without the kinds of roads we’re used to, and with this lava and ash being thrown around.
If they were of the Medieval Merc mindset, you’re fucked from the get-go, as one of the Nazgul just drops down and offers them a crapload of gold. Obviously I’m expecting they have other personal goals in mind than just “I’m only going to Middle Earth to play a Live Action combination of WoW and CoD.”
I certainly expect that more than a few of them would want to depart my service and enter into the service of Gondor and Rohan. I would not stop them, but I would point out that I as ruler come from a history of respecting freedoms (The US Constitution) and expect to institute as much as I can into my government, while they will be essentially unskilled outsiders in the lands they sell their services to, as well as being unsupplied if they think they’re selling their skill with their rifles.
Then, the land is vast and empty. There are pretty much NO people between Bree and the Sea beyond the Dwarves in the Blue Mountains and the Hobbits. Certainly there are no settlements of any merit in the southern Eriador areas along the lower Baranduin. Who is there to object?
I will bill myself to the Hobbits as King in name and friend in deed, asking nothing of them but trade, news and friendship. My soldiers will patrol as far as their borders and help protect them.
As for the Rangers and remainder of the population elsewhere, easy answer “Yes, I claim this title. No, I do not claim to be your Master. There are too few of us and too few of you for such contention. Bow to me if you will, do not if you will not. I will give you such succor and aid as I can, but ask nothing of you in return. Someday our grandchildren may ask more of each other, but not on this day.”
I fail to see how I am allied with Skald. Oh sure, he provided equipment. I call that “atonement” to ensure that Sauron doesn’t win.
Resupply? Who needs it. Use the resources you have, build the 18th and 19th century tech you can. The small population base alone ensures you will have nothing more, as I am well aware of the effects of Economy of Scale on technology and development. Within a few generations, we will be little more than Gondorians with Muskets.
If that’s your genuine belief, you’re golden. Don’t go into Lothlorien with weapons, of course; that ends badly no matter what. And Galadriel will know whether you’re telling the truth as you understand it.
As I think on it, the problem is self-sorting. The only reason to go to Lorien is to get Galadriel to get the Eagles to save Frodo & Sam; people who want to do that are going to be able to bear her gaze.
Apropos of nothing … poor Boromir.
Yeah, too bad this complete scene didn’t make it into the movie;
Chimera said:
I thought these were Skald’s mercs, working for you because they were assigned this mission, for the purposes of mucking out the orcs and Sauron. Once that mission is complete, they fully expect to be returned to Skald’s merc home base, maybe with some leave on Reisa with their hard-earned pay. I don’t think there’s an amount of gold the Nazgul could offer that would overcome the mercs’ desire to get back to “the real world”. Maybe the Ring of Power could convince some they would like to be king of the Middle Earth world. I suppose there might be a few who would change in a universe in which to be a merc for a kingdom they could rule, but merely a chance to be a soldier on a medieval world with limited tech weapons supplies and have to resort to being knights or some such (at best)? Nah, “take me home and give me my latinum”.
Now making a business case to Skald to have him keep you in supplies - that has some merits…
They’re mercenaries. It’s certain that at least some of them will have a Better to reign in Eriador than to serve on Bajor mindset. Can’t completely broom that out and Overlord!Skald wouldn’t try.
You guys seem to have the political situation under control. So I’m going to deal with the important issue.
With Legolas dead, is it too soon to put the moves on Miranda Kerr?