Saw Star Trek: Nemesis last night. Any questions? *SPOILERS* (probably)

Computer voice: The self-destruct system is off-line.

Romulus has been taken over in a coup by both inside and outside extremist insurgents.

Admiral Janeway: Your vessel is the closest, Picard. Stop your lollygagging explorations and science and warp your flagship into orbit around Romulus - pronto.

(Where were the Klingons? Spock? Script writers? Warbirds? Birds of Prey? Great Bird of the Galaxy? Where was any of the Federation vessels? Might they barge themselves along eventually?)

 Korax, "The trouble with Tribbles" (*not* in ST:nemesis)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SC_Wolf *
**I always viewed the TNG series finale All Good Things… as being in the same vein as Dickens’ A Christmas Carol./QUOTE]

Which reminds me. Patrick Stewart does an excelent rendition as Scrooge, both on the stage, and in the made-for-cable version of A Christmas Carol he starred in a few years back.

(is it vanity to quote yourself in a post? especially if you’re going off topic?)

Ok. The griping and pointing out of plotholes may resume.

I would appreciate some things explained to me:

  1. What was Mini-Picard’s motivation for wanting to blow up earth? (I’m sorry, but I can’t remember his name and he reminded me so much of Mini-me, except that he wasn’t nearly as funny or threatening). Shouldn’t he want to get revenge on the romulans, not the federation? After all, the federation didn’t put him in the minds?

  2. Exaclty why was Mini-Picard chosen to be the Remus’s leader again?

  3. How exactly do you get an m-class planet that doesn’t rotate?

  4. I would also ask how one builds a ship that big, with all those weapons, a super weapon and a perfect cloak out using ill-educated lower-class miners that without using such a tremendous amount of power that nobody can see it.

  5. Why does the Remean vicroy have the ability to mind-rape people? Is this normal for their race?

  6. What was the deal with the vicroy touching mini-picard at certain moments?

  7. Members of a early industrial civilization have humvees?

It’s not fun to nitpick a poor movie. I’ll give it a try:

A good ST cliche is how phasers (especially the electric-shaver versions) seem to clatter out of their holsters - and are thus unavailable right when you need them.

Are the Type II (rifle) phaser guns crappy or what? Picard thwacks a foe with the butt-end and the rifle breaks apart! (And were those batteries I saw?)

Nothing like a Revolutionary War re-enaction in the halls of the Enterprise - let’s all face eachother and blast-away. Furthermore - let’s have the Viceroy and Riker escape through a chute into the spacious world of the Jeffries’ tube - complete with a Bridge of Khazad Dum.

I liked:
Data’s Vulcan nerve pinch
Worf’s “(augh)… Irving Berlin”
When the guy in front of me told us all that Data’s holodeck whistle song was “Pop goes the weasel.”

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SC_Wolf
**I always viewed the TNG series finale All Good Things… as being in the same vein as Dickens’ A Christmas Carol./QUOTE]I saw that tonight - after nemesis. I’d not compare it to Dickens, but man - in “All good things” the plot is driven by Picard - rightly - yet the entire cast has crisp dialogue with their fellows. “All Good Things” is certainly on the short list of “uber Trek”.

Hmmm…a typical case of Main Character Obsession with the Big Spoiler at the End there. I mean, why didn’t we see everyone get all weepy and drink toasts about the poor no-name helmsman who was sucked out into space?

How exactly do you get starships that go whoosh? (Not to mention starships using ramming as a battle tactic.) “Vulcan-Human”, “Klingon-Human”, or “Betazoid-Human” hybrids? Where is “dilithium” on the periodic table? Etc., etc., etc.

Nitpicking the science in Star Trek is pretty hopeless.

Am i the only one who actually enjoyed this movie? Other than the ending of course with the new, data model da-duh. I thought the remun ship was fairly badass looking with the abilities it had and the effects rocked like usual. And remember everyone, no matter how bad it gets there is Always ST3 and ST5 to suck worse!

Did anyone else think that when Riker and the bad guy jumped through that chute that they’d end up in the garbage compactor?

“I don’t care what you smell, get in there!”

And when Data blew up, I thought “Man, he’s gonna need a serious defrag!”

I didn’t understand why the bad guy wanted to smoke Earth, either, and I thought the whole “I am you and you are me” crap was annoying. I could believe that the Romulans got ahold of Picard’s DNA one of those times he was captured during TNG’s run (i.e. “Unification”), but creating a clone of him sounds almost Bond-villianish in its stupid overcomplexity (not to mention leaving Picard with one inept guard in a blatant Austin Powers ripoff).

The bad guy (who doesn’t look anything like Picard, except for the baldness, and certainly doesn’t resemble the young Picard we’ve seen in the “Tapestry” episode and elsewhere) took a sample of Picard’s blood, but for some reason didn’t take enough to cure his ailment, forcing that dumb chase. Bad guys never behave logically. They like to delay for no reason.

Another dumb cliché: Picard saying “This is something I have to do!” Well, okay, John Wayne, you go ahead and abandon your ship and risk capture because a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do. Picard’s shocked paralysis after he impales Cloney is out of place, too. HeLLO! The countdown is conTINuing! Please dont stand there like an IDiot!

The genetics thing is actually kind of distasteful, implying that a genetic copy of Picard would naturally rise to the top of his local society. Edgar Rice Burroughs did the same kind of thing in his “Tarzan” books, implying that a white man of noble blood would naturally end up ruling his environment. Apparantly, experience and training count for squat in the Trek universe. Also, apparantly, accents are genetic.

The deus ex plot point hinging on Troi’s telepathy is another tired premise. This guy meets Troi once and he’s ready to waste time doing a little mind-raping? Geez, pal, I know you’ve never seen a human (well, half-human) woman before, but why not take the free’n’easy nookie, like that Romulan babe who threw herself at you? It might have been more interesting if the clone was attracted to Beverly Crusher, as it has been well-established that Picard is.

That Romulan babe did change sides with surprising alacrity, I thought.

Actually, if you wanted to do the whole “mirror” premise (a painful cliché in itself), they could have brought in Thomas Riker, recently freed from his Cardassian prison at the end of the Dominion War and incredibly pissed off and vengeance-minded. Maybe he goes nuts when he hears about William Riker and Troi.

And “Admiral” Janeway? BLECH! How does she rate a promotion? Her ship was in the Delta Qaudrant for seven years because she fucked up! GW Bush has nothing on Janeway when it comes to “falling up.”

I’m sure a lot of people though the duplicate android in the promos was Lore, but where the hell did the “B4” droid come from, and how did the bad guy get hold of him? When they found the droid, I felt like shouting “Didn’t you even watch the show?!” when Picard ordered him re-assembled. Great sense of security you have there, JLP! Not only are you assembling a droid of unknown origin, programming and capabilities that looks exactly like one of your own officers, but you let that officer download all his memories into it (including, presumably, classified material) and then leave it alone in engineering, where experience shows a Soong android could seize control of the ship with ease!

By piling on the relentless clichés and stupidity, I put this movie at the bottom third, a hair above Final Frontier and Insurrection, mostly because the effects and the title font were moderately cool.

Fouccalt, you weren’t the only one who enjoyed this movie. I found the flaws entertaining.

The one I really can’t get my mind around is that 1) only one crew member gets sucked into space (without exploding in the process, no less) and 2) never mind that, how come both ripped-apart ships don’t disintegrate in the brief period before the protective shields come up?

Boy, those Romulans are a forgiving people. Picard has just polluted the space around their planet with a virulent form of radiation and its not so much as mentioned. But then, these are the people who can go back to work the next day in a you-would-think hot zone. But hey, maybe that type of radiation has no half-life.

Meh. It wasn’t that bad of a movie. I’ve long ago stopped trying to find holes and pieces of the continuity of the series, and now I just enjoy it as regular Hollywood hootenanny. And on that level, it succeeds. Sure, driving around in a Halo Warthog was a violation of their prime directive, and sure it really didn’t add anything to the plot, but it was fun. It had one hell of a good space battle (which Insurrection sorely lacked, and which was only in First Contact in the first 15 minutes or so). Yes, Data sings. But it’s a mercifully short sequence, but you have to keep in mind that even since the first episode of TNG he had a thing for music (which the movie brings up.) Tom Hardy was a great villan–all pompous and rediculous, to be sure, but he did a good job with the role.
Star Trek fans, like Star Wars fans, hold unrealistic expectations for new movies. Keep in mind that TNG series was like any other TV show–a problem resolved in an hour, with moral issues and character development along the way (barring excellent episodes like The Best of Both Worlds). The movies are essentially the same, just on a big screen, but usually with more action for non-Trekkers to be able to sit through fifty minutes of pseudo-scientific battle.
Now I’m going to go run away.

Plus it had a damn good soundtrack.

I did like parts of it, but it didn’t take long for my fiancee and I to start MST3King it under our breaths. She made me laugh out loud when she remarked, “You know, they really shouldn’t move their vehicles until the police come.” as Shinzon ordered full reverse.

What is a Halo Warthog and how does it violate the Prime Directive?

Somebody tell me why it’s so freakin’ hard to write a good script for a Star Trek movie! I mean, come on! You’ve got almost forty years of background material to draw on; familiar, beloved characters; a potentially explosive political situation with the Romulans; plenty of opportunity to introduce moral ambiguity and/or good versus evil at your lesure. Is paying attention to continutiy that big a deal? Is it impossible to mine some juicy conflict without ignoring what has come before? And I’m not just talking about the fact that the hand phasers no longer looked like phasers, which fire a sustained beam like a real energy weapon would instead of pulses like a Star Wars blaster. I’m talking about established characters acting like they’re supposed to act. Perhaps following established Starfleet proceedure would be nice, too. Take the little ATV interlude. That this is a flagrant violation of the Prime Directive goes without saying. But since when does anything–ANYTHING the Federation makes use wheels? You’ve got anti gravs on the freakin’ hospital beds for the love of christ!

When I saw the previews for this film I thought, “This film is either going to be so cool it reinvigorates the franchise, or so bad it totally kills it.” Sadly, neither is true. I was hoping for something other than The Wrath of Kahn Lite, which is exactly what we got. Kahn works because it’s a study in contrasts: Kahn takes control of the ship through force, Kirk takes control of the ship through protocol, Kahn is obsessed with killing Kirk, Kirk is obsessed with Bibi Besch, etc., etc. This film attempts that, but doesn’t achieve it.

Did anyone else here think that the Romulan senate looked a little, well, small? These guys are supposed to be a force the size of the Federation and their senate is ten guys? Come on!

Then there’s B-4, AKA Rainman. They have an alarm system set up on the Enterprise just for that? I don’t think so.

And let’s see what movie’s they borrowed elements from for this one:

Wrath of Kahn
Star Wars
Empire Strikes Back
Alien (I kept expecting Riker to light the blow torch at the end of his phaser rifle after he dove into the Jefferies tube.)
2001

Have I missed anything? Oh, and correct me if I’m wrong, but when Mini-Picard ordered full reverse after being rammed by the Enterprise, shouldn’t he have simply dragged the Enterprise with him, rather than seperating the two ships? Also doesn’t it seem likely that the Federation would have said, “Hmm. Picard should have been here ten minutes ago, may be we should go look for him.”? Couldn’t Mini-Picard simply have cloned Picard’s blood (since he had a sample of it) and used that, instead of doing the ol’ vampire routine on “daddy”? They use up their full compliment of photon torpedoes, does no one think of using the replicators to make more? Oh, and this movie gets my vote for the lamest love scene, ever! Riker’s going to town on Troi, and in several shots, you can clearly see the sheet covering her boobs! Wow! Them Betazoids are real freaks in bed.

Still no seatbelts, hmm. Maybe the Federation is trying to do the galaxy a favor, but it’s just not working yet. Oh well, at least Westly’s appearance was brief and silent!

There was no good reason why, after the first ramming/separation and Enterprise’s discovery that Scimitar’s primary weapon was still functional, Picard couldn’t just order a second ramming.

And yes, as others have already said, Shinzon’s hatred of Earth and the Federation was totally unsupported by the story. It makes perfect sense he’d hate Romulans; no sense that he’d hate humans to the point of wanting to sterilize Earth.

Oh yeah, the Enterprise’s transporters conk out after Picard beams over to the ship to kill Mini-Picard, but are magically repaired before Data slaps the transponder disk (which was borrowed from The Undiscovered Country, add another film to the list) on Picard. Sheeyit! Even Scotty twern’t that good!

Tuckerfan: the source of the transporter energy was the disk, that’s why only one of them could go.

I dunno, I kind of liked the movie but it’s not truly Trek. It’s more of an action movie with 10% Trek-flavored extract. Everything was wrong: the Romulans were just people in funny makeup instead of being steely hardasses, and their new Warbirds looked too Klingon. The Remans were not very interesting, and why do they mine dilithium when the Romulan Empire doesn’t use it? To sell to the Federation? Picard is not one to cackle whilst veering about in a SUV. Most of the main Enterprise characters got shafted for anything to do besides fill the screen.

I actually did like that Janeway was an admiral. Get that crazy bitch out of a captain’s chair and get her pushing paper. And the space battle was pretty awesome. As for the two ships separating when the Scimitar backs off, I think that’s reasonable. It’s not like the ships are welded together, so the Enterprise’s inertia would cause it to remain behind or at least move slower.

I have to agree with Bryan Eker’s comments about this movie. I had high hopes that it would be as good as First Contact. It was about on a par with Insurrection. Both of these movies seemed like typical hour long shows expanded with more special effects to fill a movie slot. Patrick Stewart and Tom Hardy seemed to be the only ones doing any acting. I’ll have to think long and hard about watching another Star Trek movie.

If you were thrown into the vacuum of space with no space suit, would you explode?

Hey, hey, hey! If they’ll still move, you should get 'em off to the side of the nebula! Man, I hate it when a couple of hot-shot starship captains get into a wreck, and then spend the next thirty minutes wrangling about insurance and who rammed who and trying to set off their Thalaron radiation superweapons, instead of just getting the damned spaceships off to one side of the nebula and out of the way!

Man, I bet traffic through the Rift was backed up for hours!

I was more disturbed by the fact that they used Foley sound effects during the scene of Data’s EVA (when he grabs an antenna). Of course, they did the same thing in First Contact. Memo to foley artists: when it’s time to do the vacuum-of-space scenes, go home early.

What I don’t get is how Enterprise can detect “positronic energy” from an inert android several light-years away, but a task force of starships doesn’t notice the raging battle on the other side of that green cloud.