Scientology! Good? Bad?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’m not sure if this is the right forum. You’d think that after 1300 posts or so I’d have figured that one out, but I guess not. Anyway I need some advice, and figured you people are as good a source as any to get it. It has to do, as you’ve probably guessed, with scientology.

Now, don’t worry, I’m not planning on running off and doing whatever the fuck it is they do. It’s for a friend. Specificly a semi-ex-girlfriend of mine. Both of her parents are mildly into scientology. A fact I’ve kept mostly quiet and respectfull about (even when they tell outright scientific lies). She’s been having some emotional and psychological problems recently. She went to a counseler once, I’m not sure how much it helped. I personally think that’s the best thing for her. The problem is, she doesn’t have coverage for it (or so she believes) and it costs $60 a pop. Her Mom has offered to pay for Scientologist classes. She already went in for a personallity test, got the results. Now she is planning to go in for 25 hours of classes (I must admit I can’t remember what they are for). Her mother is paying so she thinks it’s worthwhile.
My personal feelings are that it’s harmfull even to go to the classes. So what should I do, should I talk to her about the truth on Scientology. Should I let her do the first class, what? Any debate on thissubject is welcomed and encouraged. The other thing that makes me wary is Scientology’s distrust of psychs. I’m afraid she might pick that up.

Again, any help would be apreciated.

2

An old friend of my SO tried to rope my SO into coming to a Church of Scientology (hereafter abbreviated as Co$). Of course it was under a different name, so I wasn’t immediately suspicious. Until I looked it up.

I have never gone to any meetings, nor have I met anyone who has and discussed it. But let me tell you this…all signs point to stay the fuck away. Apparently these intensive classes are all about personality deconstruction, where Scientologists hurl abuse at initiates for hours, hoping to break them down. Whereupon they “analyze” what happened in an effort to rebuild a healthier, stronger person. People have claimed that Scientology has done great things. Rumor has it that it cured Tom Cruise’s dyslexia.

But the overwhelming amount of public opinion to the contrary leads me to believe otherwise. Just do an internet search for “scientology” and “gripe” or “rant” and see what that turns up.

MR

3

I don’t know if stepping in and telling her not to do it is such a good idea. Is there some way you can innocuously present her with some research findings that demonstrate that the Co$ really is the crock of shit that everyone else thinks it is?

MR

4

oldscratch -

If you can, point her to this site: http://www.xenu.net

It might have the findings Maeglin was discussing…and if nothing else, will show you how BAD of an idea it would be for her to get involved.

5

I found this page from the Skeptic’s Dictionary very informative: http://www.skepdic.com/dianetic.html

It reaffirmed my opinion that Co$ is bad.

6

I think scientology’s a crock of shit IMO. Any system that manipulates people so they’ll be just like so-and-so isn’t really my cup of tea. She should tell her parents she does not want to go into this if she has any doubts on whether she wants to become a scientologist, or any other belief for that matter. No one can force you to believe something you won’t/don’t.

7

Scientology is a cult that got lucky. They mentally terrorize their people. I do hope you point out that as long as she has money she will never be well. They will insist on her paying and paying and paying.

http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/

there is a lot on this page and others about it. This could get very nasty for ya’ll. Be careful. From everything I’ve read these people are the real scum of the earth.

8

Find Harlen Ellison’s <sp?> writen statement about about the night L. Ron tipped back a few and wrote Dianetics. it was at a Sci Fi convention, and he was with other writer’s. The story goes that he complained about only getting a few cents per word, and someone told him he could make good money by starting his own religion. He said OK, I’ll do it and started right then.

Also, I have been to the compound where they repair E-meters, as well as produce movies/audio tapes. They are nice and professional when I deal with them, but looking around you get creeped out. There are statues and paintings of Mr. Hubbard everywhere, and they revere him like a god. Infalible leaders are a pretty strong sign you are dealing with a cult.

E-meters are central to their beliefs, appearantly. The E-meter is used as a diagnostic tool to detect psychological problems. It is just a Ohm-meter with two grips for your hands,and they use a potentionmeter to set it to a range where the needle jumps, so if you grip tighter, or your palms sweat, there is a lot of needle activity. Basiscally, if you are nervous, or shocked/scared, they show you a moving needle and say “aha, now we see the problem.” When the needle is steady, you are progressing, and are becoming “Clear.” The idea that the resistance across your chest is someway related to your mental health is laughable, but they buy it hook, line, and sinker.

The good thing is that the E-meter is like a part of the polygraph tests, and the cheats are the same. Have your friend relax and spray her palms with a good anti-perspirant before they do the E-meter bit, and she should do very well. They might make her wash them right before the test, so maybe she should spray an inconspicuous area of clothing heavy, and then casually wipe her hands on it after she washes them. Working with a tennis grip-strengthening device for a while could also allow her to steady her grip. As far as I know, these are the shortcuts on the Scientologist path to mental health.

9

Here is a site from Operation Clambake on how to approach a Scientologist: http://www.xenu.net/cic/dodont.html It looks like a standard set of dos/don’ts in relation to getting a cultist out of a dangerous cult.

10

Well thanks so far. She doesn’t have a computer, I can print out that Skeptic’s Dictonary article though. Thanks. But, should I let her go to the classes in the hope that after 25 hours of her wasted life it will fade and she’ll realize how stupid it is. Or should I argue against it. My gut tells me not to let her go(of course I don’t have absolute say, I can only put forth arguments why she shouldn’t). What are some good reasons for her to not even go to the classes in the first place?

11

How about this: Scientology really does not want to help you. In fact, it will hurt you the worst of anyone to get money out of you. That statement backed up by plenty of facts should at least make her think.

12

$cientology preys on the weak-minded and is specifically designed to drain them of cash and has no more sense of moral value for their followers than a sheep-farmer has for a wheelbarrow full of wool, pointed towards the market.

If it was me I would tell said friend that $cientology is a criminal organization which is meat-rotten at its core of cores, and if she were so retarded as to throw her money at them then she could just god-damn as well do so, but she could forget talking to ME ever again, because I’m “suppressive” and proud … Just as long as she was aware ahead of time that lower-grade recruits are aggressively hypnotized with repetitive tasks and catchphrases, marketed by craven a-holes who employ the Stockholm syndrome to make headway on their OWN hefty $ci accounts. Like her parents (oh, she DIDN’T know that her parents get credit on their bill for bringing in new rubes?).

The Xenu story might help too … it’s always good for a laugh, and it would be some time and a shitload of cash before she hears that one by “official” means.

Xenu.net is basically the #1 source for all the solid info on the clams … I particularly favor their alt.religion.scientology week in review.

13

Here’s a quote of interest from a freed clam:
“There IS life, love and friendship … after $cientology.”

  • said by a former Scientologist
    I hope it helps.
14

Let me try to summarize to see if I understand your question. Your friend has some issues. She wants to get some help, but doesn’t feel she can afford therapy. Her parents are offering to pay for her to attend Co$ classes. (Are these a seminar of some sort, or standard auditing? Does it matter?)

You are concerned because you think Scientology is a waste of time and potentially harmful. You don’t want her to be hurt or used and manipulated or otherwise emotionally injured. You are not sure if the attending the classes will just demonstrate how useless they are to her, or will get her wrapped up in the nonsense. Yet you are afraid to come on too strong with reaction, perhaps because of her parents’ involvement?

You are looking for advice on what to tell her, and whether to support her taking the classes in hopes she’ll get over it or get bored with it, or whether you should try to talk her out of it, and if so how.

As far as the classes just boring her or being worthless and driving her away from it, I don’t think you can count on it. While it may have this effect on some people, those are typically well-grounded skeptical types. Someone having emotional issues is vulnerable to anyone attempting to help them, even if the help really isn’t help. Also, these people are good at convincing people they need this. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be around. Remember Co$ is a money-making venture. Like any money-making venture, sales is key. They have good sales people. My advice is that you should do something to show you don’t think it’s a good idea. After all, you don’t think it’s helpful to her, so express that to her.

As for what to say to convince her, how strong to react? Um, I’m not sure here. If you can provide even some of the material above in printed form so she can read it, that might help. Just have a serious conversation with her expressing why you think Scientology isn’t what it claims to be, and why you think she’d be better off skipping it.

For points to consider…

Co$ is founded on a lie. It is a completely fictional fabrication purely for making money. That is per the founder himself, L. Ron Hubbard. Of course other religions have just as crazy and unsupported notions and mythology.

They actively strive to suck you in and get you to pay for ever more levels of attainment - the rise in “spirituality” is purely a function of how much you spend.

They are a cult. They manipulate your thinking, offering mental abuse in the name of curing you.

They are scary. They do not appreciate critics, and are as dangerous as the Mob in protecting themselves. Including harassment, legal suits, threats, intimidation, breaking into offices and stealing documents.

They claim to be science, but are the biggest load of crap completely unsupported by science. They are pseudoscience. The engram crap and stuff is discussed on the links provided. E-meters are bogus. It’s all just window dressing so you’ll cough up money.

How much of this you are able and comfortable sharing with your friend is a judgment you will have to make.

I hope this was some help.

15

I just want to add that the one thing your friend should be really careful of is revealing her personal secrets to the bastards that will go to work on her. If they find out her dark secrets - has she ever stolen any money, does she secretly hate somebody close to her - they will have a powerful hold over her. At the very least, before she goes, she should develop some little white lies to feed them under interrogation.

16

You can tell her that the facility (in So. Cal., in the Boonies) I have been to is a damn scary place, inside or out. They have a nice facade, but it’s function is the same as the Berlin Wall. Camera’s on both the inside and outside of the barbed wire (in the area’s not visible to the street.) Visitors are asked not to speak with anyone other than the tour guides, and they keep you far away from any young people, as if speaking to them might corrupt them.

If this is a religion, it’s wicked bad for the faithful. I didn’t realize it at the time, but I am guessing a lot of the people I saw in the repair shop and recording area were Sea Org, because the looked overworked and pale/pastey, which isn’t normal for this area at all. They also have a buttload of money to spend on marginally useful things, which fits the picture.

They recently had a somewhat suspiscious fatality, but it was probably extreme stupidity rather than anything sinister.

Now to what you should do. It seems if her parents are into it, she needs a rock on the outside. I would discourage her without being too judgemental. Show her the info in the links and posts above, and express concern, but don’t make her run from you or avoid coming to you when/if she gets into it and she starts thinking it’s a bad deal. If she is alienated from all her friends on the outside, she will have nowhere to go. If you do the all or nothing bit, and she goes with her parents, she might end up inside forever. The Clam-bake do’s and don’t make it clear she has to have someone who cares about her outside, and while you want to keep her out to begin with, you don’t want her to have nowhere to come out to if she does go in. Just my two cents.

Good luck.

17

I pissed off a cientologist once...I was on a public bus with my brother, and it was going past one of the huge Co buildings in LA. We noticed this and laughed, and this woman turned around and started getting all pissy with us about it. Now granted, it wasn’t the most sensitive thing to do, but OTOH, I’d be pissy about defending my religion if it had just bilked me out of assloads of money. We just laughed for a long long time.

You know, on occaision I * do * miss LA…weird :slight_smile:

18

Take a look at this site. Very, very scary stuff. Here is one person’s account of what being with Scientologists is like: http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~dif/ic/persons/jost.htm

19

I hate to dis another faith, but this one isn’t (a faith), IMHO. Co$ers have no freinds other than potentail recruits and other Co$ers, so if she goes, you will lose her.

However, this is GD material, methinks.

20

Scientology is a very frightening and distrubing organization. I would second that you examine the websites that Falcon and others have posted. On one of them (I think it’s the Operation Clambake site) there’s the stories of folks who have left the “church,” and make it sound like something out of a fascist state. There’s also three 60 Minutes episodes about Scientology on the web that are rather well done and very revealing.

After all, this is an important decision, and no one should go into it having heard only one side of the story.