If you’re VT then you’re getting lynched hurts the town because while it may eliminate a distraction it costs us a mislynch and we fall further behind not to mention the distraction you’re causing just by proposing your plan. If you’re scum its a hell of a plan because people tend to shy away from the person shouting “Kill me! Please, kill me!” but eventually the vig, if there is one is gonna get tired of the noise and remove you.
If you’re just tired of being called scum when you think you’ve done nothing wrong and are frustrated then take a look at how NAF played in the WWW game, he was under suspicion the whole game and ended up winning the game for the town. But really no mater where you’re coming from seriously stop trying to get people to lynch you.
I’m also fine with a non-remorseful vigging. I’m just sick of us wasting our time, and I don’t want to be stuck alive in a LyLo situation, because that means we’re as good as lost. I honestly don’t think this Town is going to get anywhere until I’m dead. Hell, Normal Phase has voted for me every single Day. At least if I’m dead his vote will go toward finding Scum, for once. Plus, I do think that Tom made a Scummy mistake. He’s normally a VERY careful player and not one to make the sort of statement he did.
Drain, if you’re town, I’m sorry about the lynch, but I gave my reasons for my vote, and you’ve barely even attempted to address the substance of my case.
Indeed. I think that she’s saying that, if she flips town, then her saying I blocked her last night will be taken to be true more than it is now (where there are conspiracy theories about us both being scum); it might go some way to confirm me as well since peeker has said he was also blocked (and scum having two roleblockers would be extremely unlikely).
That’s not a good reason to lynch her if she’s town, though, IMHO.
This is the second time you’ve fallen on your sword like this, and it reads just as anti-Town to me as the first time. Your ordering people’s votes around is scummy as all heck. If people were to do what you asked (if they had the last time, either), then what do we as Town get out of that? Basically nothing. If you are Scum, then any of your Scum teammates who have yet to place a vote are off the hook of having to decide whether to place a vote for you. That would be extremely beneficial for Scum. Even if you are Town, it’s at best a neutral move: keep random Town and Scum off your bandwagon and force them to find votes elsewhere – we get that “elsewhere” information, but we lose info on who would have voted for you and why. Given that you yourself accused Daphne Black yesterday on the basis of persistent bandwagon voting, for you to argue before and after (in the process of asking to be lynched, both on Day One and now) that bandwagon votes provide no useful information feels inconsistent, to boot.
Given your vote requests have next to no chance of being honored, either time, I think this gambit is primarily an effort to save yourself, by sowing doubt in people’s minds as to whether “Scum would do that”.
Finally, if you ARE town, and recognizing that this comes close to ordering votes around myself – can I request that you quit this kind of business and just play the game? You seem to think Chronos and/or Tom Scud are Scummy. Make your case, defend yourself, and save yourself that way, if you can.
That’s not consistent with her having done the same thing on Day One. She wasn’t the distraction at that point; she was the “main event”.
@ Daphne, regarding your post up above –
I almost never respond to one-off accusations against me, unless they are completely bass-ackwards, which yours wasn’t. It’s just a waste of mental energy. The case against you had me pulling my hair out. My instinct was to defend you, but it had nothing to do with the objective evidence, only with the identity of your main accuser. If you feel like it, read my comments again from the perspective that I was fighting hard not to give you too much benefit of the doubt; it might make more sense.
Regarding my question to you about your ability – again, I was hoping there was a logical reason to support you. I couldn’t find anything in your claim itself as originally given, because Scum can claim a not-always-effective alignment-detection ability with next to no risk. Anything else would be asking for trouble. Conversely, alignment detection is the strongest possible ability for Town (and most dangerous to Scum), so I hoped if you had something else, and I prompted you, you would find no reason not to say so. And that would have settled the question in my mind.
I understand why you didn’t answer, but it was frustrating.
So now you don’t think Chronos is Scum? I know I’ve been arguing he’s likely 3rd party, but you haven’t. You spent half of Day One calling him Scummy, then picked that up again Today and have not said you’ve changed your mind.
Yep, I agree that’s what she’s saying, and I agree with her. I don’t think her flipping Scum makes it significantly more likely you’re Scum, too, though. That’s a conspiracy theory too far, for me.
To Daphne: What would Normal’s scum motivation be for arguing on Day 2 that peeker was not on the same scum team as Jimmy (as a reading of Jimmy’s interactions), when there were several people arguing the other way?
(linky, linky, linky to Day 2 posts - I may have missed a couple.)
Also, I agree that, whatever Drain is, her 180 on Daphne is hard to explain by anything but a confirmation of Daphne’s role; if they’re both scum, why did Drain work so hard to lynch Daphne on day 2? Could be a deliberate bussing for cred I guess, but given how hard a time Town is having finding scum so far, hard to see what scum would have to gain from it.
Whereas scum-Drain might (and only might) have gotten a mislynch of Daphne out of lying about the block, but would have been pretty much DOA afterwards, and one Town for one Scum is a bad trade for Scum; and of course Town-Drain would be telling the truth.
Yeah, I don’t really see any scum motivation for that. I guess I focussed on her behaviour with my bandwagon only. But the way she’s been reacting is once again making me second-guess myself. She’s seeming pretty Townie right now.
unvote Normal Phase
Damn. I’m once again pretty stumped. I’m not going to vote for Drain Bead at this time.
vote Chronos
I don’t see how Tom has cleared him. Here I go jumping on another bandwagon.
@Guiri - Each claim needs to be judged on its merits. Why do you think the less active players are a poor place to find scum?
Thanks for posting the source code, but I think it’s just a distraction at this stage of the game. I think it’s a potentially useful tool, if limited (not all votes are of equal importance, and scum frequently bus each other).
@Tiltawhirl - What are your thoughts on the latest developments, Tom’s case on Drain Bead, and Drain Bead’s bizarre request to be lynched?
This is not pro-town play. If you are town, we can’t afford avoidable mis-lynches, and how does this plan help with data gathering? What is the advantage to town of pushing your lynch ahead of a player you believe to be scum? I ignored this as odd play on Day 1, but felt there was at least some justification in the light of your vanilla calim, with a claimed doc as the other main lynch candidate. I don’t see any such justification now.
Points to consider if you are town:
Suspicion is part of the game. It gets tedious to be under constant suspicion (I’ve been there), but it can generate info for town. The game may look very different in a Day or 2.
The players pushing for your lynch aren’t neccessarily scum (see amrussel’s case on Thing Fish).
By pushing for your own lynch, you are giving scum an easy bandwagon to hide in. You are also causing problems for town, as we have to wonder what the hell is going on (see my speculation below).
Your death will not confirm Daphne, as 2 scum blockers isn’t out of the question, given what we know about the setup.
Your argument that you are a lost cause in LYLO is not valid. By pushing your own lynch, you are moving us closer to LYLO.
It’s possible Drain Bead is a bomb. However, her play could also be a scum role-fishing gambit. By pushing forward the bomb idea she could hope to identify townies that are reluctant to vote for her.
@Tom - To clarify, you think Jimmy tried to save Drain Bead by pushing Bill as a lynch?
@Oredigger, Scuba Ben - What do you think of the odds of Drain Bead and Chronos being scum together?
@Boozahol - Who is your top pick for scum right now?
@ Alka I didn’t say that they were a poor place to find scum, in fact I imagine some scum will tend to stay under the radar for as long as possible. I said that they have not left much of a trail of votes or posts and so there isn’t a lot of analysis I can do on them.
If Drain Bead is a bomb, then asking for all the power roles now is good idea given the suspicion on her. Secondly, if she is a bomb, then she will go off regardless, so it doesn’t really matter when she is lynched the effect will be the same. Also, her actions are more likely to push people onto Chronos as the only other bandwagon today and not wanting to vote for her.
If she is town, then why is she trying to self lynch? I have seen townies do it in the past, but it is rare and it always hurts the town. Yes it removes the suspicion and adds some more data but usually at a larger cost to the town.
Of course, Chronos looks pretty scummy and there is plenty of circumstancial evidence adding up to likely scumhood.
The question is which one is scummier because that is who we should be voting for?
OK, well I have a half completed WoW on Normal Phase which has proved interesting to read.
#7, #9, #11, #54, #99: fluff #130: comments on Miller role, Jesters, suggest holding off on Miller claims if one exists #144: comment on Jester likelihood, changes so Miller should claim early #145: fluff #160: question about scum leader, suggests it maybe stronger for scum to hold. #165: happy with Tom Scud or Allwalker as Leader, elects Allwalker #166: comment to JC #150: response to JC about leader have lack of voting record, comment to Drain Bead about length of leader role. #173: respone to JC. #188: surprise about OAOW ineligible for Leader role #257: cannot give advice to OAOW, does not like part claims #279: nothing wrong with tuesday vote for wednesday end. comment to jpei about not voting for leader, thinks position shold go to trusted player, comment about Tom Scud and 3rd parties. #290: votes jepi over lack of leader vote. Thinks may have specific reason for it. prefers change to voting end. #334: Comment on OAOW soft claim, sees what he did as good thing #377: fluff #392:long post on several subjects, votes Drain Bead over Lie Detector #413: response to jpei about his question to Freudian Slit #414: comment to jpei about finding scum #452: response to Drain Bead about Lie detector role giving reasoning #528: response to Alka Seltzer about current vote count. possible scum motivation if peekercpa is scum and drain bead not. Is not moving vote though. #599: question to chronos about full roleclaim may benefit scum ore than town #701: fluff #732: Thinks jpei move horrible but sees no scum motivation, gives reason for keeping vote on drain bead #750: comment about day end #753: comment to chronos about day ending on a four way tie #796: fluff #814: comment to jpei about ending Day, may give enough time to take another look at peeker, Chronos and BillMc #838: does not think jpei or boozy is scum, unvotes drain bead as noone else thinks like him, does not want to vote BillMc, votes Chronos of strange Day 1 behaviour #874: re-read through peekercpa’s post, only got as far as #336 #883, #889, #893, #894, #909, #912, #915: fluff #920: comment about peekercpa and possibilities #969, #970: was going to vote JC for leader due to sensible play, but elects Boozy #1022: question to drain bead about voting for her again #1045:large response to Drain Bead + comment to Gryff #1055: response to Tom Scud about Gryff comment, would have preferred him to stay quiet. #1106: long response to Chronos about peekercpa’s claim, effectively does not think peekercpa is scum, thinks comments CIAS pulled out demonstrate insincerity on JC’s part. #1107: agnostic on DaphneBlack wagon, comment on two amrussell posts #1114:responses to DaphneBlack and Drain Bead. #1117: response to Drain Bead
Now, it could be that Tom Scud and Normal Phase are teamed together, but to both stick their necks out like makes the thought really unlikely.
Could one of them be trying to save Chronos? Unlikely. I have a feeling Tom Scud is doing what he thinks is right and voting for the player he thinks is scummiest otherwise I see no reason for the votes at the start of today. Normal Phase may be, given the immediate jump, but she has followed on from arguments used since her started making them.
Could DB and DB be part of a scum team together and are trying to get some cross confirmation? Possible. No, I think it unlikely. DaphneBlack is looking increasingly townie, but the same cannot be said for Drain Bead.