I didn’t ‘dismiss’ the counterpoint. I refuted it.
You said you weren’t taking temporal votes into account.
I pointed out that you used words like “already” which have a temporal meaning.
You said you phrased it wrongly.
Then I said, that’s not a very good explanation. We can’t simply let people off the hook because they misspoke. Jeez, you know this!
How is this not a discussion?
How is this some kind of unwarranted attack on you?
You are comparing yourself to storyteller far too much in my opinion.
Your facts aren’t even correct:
I voted for storyteller… I’m pretty sure everyone is painfully aware of this.
I voted for you yesterday. I’m hardly hiding my opinions.
And I told you why I haven’t voted for you Today. I was assessing you - You and Rysto. I chose Rysto. You know why? Because you flipped out. Rysto has not.
All the other people voting for you? They are voting for you for different reasons. I doubt anything I’m saying has influence on them. I wouldn’t be surprised if people are avoiding voting for you because I voted for you yesterday.
(2) How does that affect the calculus? I’m saying I expect more Town power roles because we look deficient. If masons are “less” than usual in some fashion, then that makes it more probable that DiggitCamara is telling the truth, not less.
And does anyone else find it weird that I think DiggitCamara is Town while arguing with DiggitCamara? Just me? Okay.
It would not surprise me in the least if Sach is “”"“Plankton”""".
And in case you don’t ““feel”” me on that, note that my vote hasn’t and will not change.
Sach’s Teflon coating is wearing thin though.
I wonder what would be harder, for Sach to go an entire game with out using the prefix “Re” or for Meeko to go the entire game with out referencing himself in the third person.
Meeko, AllWalker was a detective who was immune to being recruited by the sinners. He was not immune to nightkills by the Blackhearts.
I don’t believe Diggit’s claim. A completely bulletproof townie has the potential to be quite unbalanced. We don’t seem to have a cop, but if Diggit were to be confirmed as Town in some way(say by a scum slip) the scum would never be able to get rid of him.
Also, storyteller ran what we know about the setup through JSexton’s pointing system and as I recall, worked out that absent scum power roles, we were facing 5 or 6 scum at the start. The numbers worked out as:
The thing is, if we had 6 scum to start his game then we’ve been at lynch-or-lose since Day Four(!). I know that JSexton’s system says that the game would be somewhat balanced, but it does have its limits and it just doesn’t make any sense to me that town would have 3 mislynches to work with while having to lynch 6 scum.
I reject the idea of scum power roles because it really doesn’t seem to fit with the setup. What powers could scum have? Roleblockers or redirectors would be useless when the Town has only one active power role, and a crippled one at that(and that’s true even if Diggit is truthful).
I think what people are missing in the pointing system is the spawn. Like I said before I’m not good at figuring that kind of stuff out but there is some addition to the scum team there but also a negative due to the random voting.
And I think this begins to get at why I hate Mafia. You want to pick a fight here. There is no way I can be any clearer. But, because I am Meeko, it will somehow be accepted. On top of that, you seem to answer your question in point 2.
Do I really need to RE explain the Mason drawback in this game? You simply looked at balance in the game, and failed to mention that Masons were masonry-less in this game. This smudges the game set up. I would expect Scum to inflate Town power in order to reason out less power for town, in order to start a bandwagon on Town.
Granted, you are taking a town stance on your balance argument. Scum don’t last long if they argue against town. I don’t know if it is a slip here, or something else, but arguing for an extra “non-vanilla” doesn’t wash with stating that we had 4 traditional masons. [I suck at balance, but 4 regular, masonry utilizing, masons seems to be a LOT of power for town. – Light years away from what we actually have in this game.]
And this next part, I’m just gonna re-quote and take from there :::
And does anyone else find it weird that I think DiggitCamara is Town while arguing with DiggitCamara? Just me? Okay.
My immediate reaciton to this is that there is a typo.
If you mean to state that you can not understand why you are arguing with a Town Diggit, then I can offer up two solutions.
If you are scum, it is probably a Slip of some sort. Do not change a thing, and Town will be glad to know this in all games going forward.
Let me go slow on this next part. Hopefully you will understand how I intend this. As always, I will be honest. It is going to be frank, and I think it might help.
If you are town, I sincerely suggest you look at why you feel compelled to argue something so far. You ping me based on how far you press things, you ping me on how often you stonewall. If you are Town, this does not help town, as you do pick up votes for pinging. [I can only speak for myself, but I am willing to bet that you have pinged other players based on your argument style.]
I wonder if you ever asked your above question IRL.
How much time did we waste arguing the merits of lysing Spawn every year? [Can wasted time be calculated in a balance question?]
How many players never voted Spawn? I Don’t know how far I am from Rysto here, but I think we can both agree that it would be more of a red herring if everyone had to place a mandatory vote on Spawn each year.*
*Yeah, doubtful something would be put into a game, just to be taken immediately back out. But, it is in this game, and it raises the “Why?”. If why has to be asked, to that extent, I don’t think it is as much of a red herring as we think it is.
What information? Diggit will almost certainly be alive next Summer. Will that tell us that a) he is what he says he is, so the scum killed someone else or b) he’s scum, so the scum killed someone else?
If he is what he says he is, the only way to confirm him would be for scum to try to kill him. I don’t think we can count on them to help us out on that one. Hell, even if there were no kill this Winter, we’d have to at least consider the possibility that it’s an elaborate long con.
What will we know next Summer that we don’t know now?
What is the chance that we are one lynch away from a Town win?
Assuming we aren’t, but still have a successful lynch, can we not filter X was scum all along back into votes on Diggit? Can we not filter it back into the game at large?
No. I asked for clarification because I have no idea what you are talking about.
To me Masonry in this game means Special Ed, Freudian Slit, Drain Bead, and Meeko.
In a sentence: “Four players comprise the Masonry in 'On Cecil Pond.”
Based on your posts, you have a different definition of “masonry” and I wanted to know what that was.
Sigh. That isn’t what you said. You said the masons are without masonry, which is confusing as heck. If I recall correctly, you stated that the masons are not able to communicate outside the game thread. That I wasn’t able to connect ‘no masonry’ to ‘can’t talk outside the game thread’ is reasonable in my opinion.
Did you read what I wrote? I’m saying I’m EXPECTING additional power for town as a reason to believe DiggitCamara.
If I read the tea leaves correctly, you seem to be arguing that I’m intentionally inflating the power of the masons.
(1) That’s not true.
(2) I don’t even see how anyone could even attempt to do so. All the masons have claimed. All the information is public. The “power” of the masons is clear and apparent. Reading in anything else to my statements (that I’m “tricking” people into thinking the masons are more than what they said they are) is exactly that, reading into it and making shit up.
(3) You might think that “masonry utilizing” is somehow significantly more powerful, but I do not.
It was a joke. DiggitCamara is taking issue with me for “arguing” with him all while that ‘argument’ is the basis for my leaning towards believing that he is Town. I found that he is still mad about that funny.
I’ve been lynched for being vocal before and I’m sure it will happen again. Of course I ping people, I state what I’m thinking. I express my opinions rather than keeping them secret. I’m as open as I possibly can be, which makes people want to kill me. I know this, and I don’t care. It’s part of the game, and I feel it is the duty of townies to express their thoughts without fear of ‘pinging’ others. I engage others, and I seek out information. When I see something of interest I state so and pursue it. That is how I play. Apparently, this rubs you the wrong way. How would you want me to play? Do you want me to sit back and say little? Do you want me to hide my thoughts from you?
Meeko, you aren’t nearly as clear as you think you are.
If asking for clarification is some sort of huge insult, then yeah, maybe I shouldn’t play this game.
If I am wrong in this assessment, I am willing to listen to others. In other words, if you feel that I should have been able to understand what Masons with no masonry means, please state so and I’ll apologize to Meeko.
Otherwise, I’m done with Meeko. I’m not going to be voting for Meeko, and Meeko has been clear that he doesn’t care if Chronos himself comes down and tells everyone that I’m town. So really there is no point.
Yes - if we assume that we’re going to lynch successfully, then it follows that we’ll do well. But it’s a very generous assumption. The way we earn successful lynches is by doing the hard work of making decisions. I could say of any player, “Don’t lynch them today - if we lynch someone else and they flip scum, we’ll have more info”. At some point, you have to lynch based on the information you’ve got right now. It’s our job to make the calls, and it’s bad play to be afraid of doing that.
OK, and on preview, Meeko - “Masonry” does not mean secret off-board communications. It means “a group of people who are masons”. Off-board comms are by no means standard for masons. Their core strength lies in the fact that they can confirm each other as town. Getting to talk to each other privately is a bonus.
We’re short on time and I don’t like the idea of one off voting again. I buy Diggit’s role claim so I’m not going to vote for him, at least for toDay.
So for me it comes down to Rysto or Sach. I don’t like the case against Rysto basically it seems to be well you’re the only one we don’t know about in this situation so you must be scum with a little retread of a PIS (reverse PIS actually I think) case. Sach is getting heat from our two mason’s which automatically makes the case look some what legit to me, at least we agree that they are town motivated in building the case. The case kind of builds off of what I was suspicious of before the whole Alka thing which was Sach’s dogged pursuit of Story.
I can get on board with it since it seems the most reasonable of the cases for toDay.
NETA: Apparently the case against Sach was just led by Meeko which makes me doubt it. I remembered Drain leading a case and for some reason thought they were together. Apparently Drain is after Rysto so that makes the case against him look much better. I’m reluctant to change my vote though but I just wanted to let you know that I spotted an error in my train of thought against Sach.
It is often called such on the boards they post in.
1 a : something constructed of materials used by masons b : the art, trade, or occupation of a mason c : work done by a mason
2 capitalized : freemasonry
1 capitalized : the principles, institutions, or practices of Freemasons —called also Masonry
2 : natural fellowship based on some common experience
**Anyway.
**
Does the private talking bonus require re-balancing?
We have Masons that can’t communicate privately.
We had a Vig with a vig-kill that gave no death reveal.
We apparently don’t have a Doc or a Cop.
**
Would Bullet proof townie put this back in balance, or break it?**