And if the differences were purely genetic, you’d be President of the United States like Obama or a renowned astrophysicist like Neal deGrasse Tyson, instead of a racist loser trying desperately to sublimate his small penis anxiety by spamming message boards with half-assed Google research. Obviously more research is needed, Doctor.
No, because I tried to interpret your question on the assumption that you were not strawmanning me.
However, since you insist:
Please show me where I stated that any race or races was (simply) “inferior.” Please quote me. Failing that, please admit that I said no such thing and apologize.
Your choice.
I have not presented much of anything in the way of solutions. What I have posted is evidence that racial differences are significant, reasonably inflexible, and that they repeat themselves throughout the world.
In addition, I have not descended to the kind of insults you have.
You’re not really going to return to this Randroverian claim that “less intelligent” doesn’t mean “inferior,” are you? It was laughable bullshit then, and it hasn’t improved with age.
“Anyone on an internet forum can claim any identity.”
This is true, but I am willing to stipulate you present yourself accurately. How about an answer?
And no, I am not willing to stipulate you are well informed. Any moron can cherry pick points to support his beliefs.
My parents raised me not to dislike blacks, and to believe that the differences between blacks and whites were minimal and due to racial discrimination. I still will not dislike a black person because the person is black. However, I have learned that the differences are fairly significant, and do not seem to be diminishing.
The fact that so many liberals are unable to discuss this matter calmly - as conservatives are able to discuss global warming calmly - indicates to me that they are not really confident in what they claim to believe.
OK, go out and find evidence that blacks perform and behave as well as whites, or at least that that they are improving.
Carbon steel and iron smelting are two different things. The Haya were first at forging carbon steel, by hundreds of years.
Well, golly, how noble of you not to sink to hating the poor dumb negroes you have to deal with all the time.
You are so cute when showing fake navitee, even in the link I already pointed out the items that you are pushing. And if you are actually not presenting any solutions, then the point by the OP is justified, just STFU.
I have discussed also global warming, suffice to say you are an ignoramus even on this, conservatives do not discuss that subject calmly, many actually even deny that there is a problem.
I’m not a scientist, anthropologist or sociologist so you lose me when you deny the existence of race. Whether it is a social construct or whatever, I am pretty sure that I can pick the black guy out of a crowd of “orientals”
How are races any different than breeds of dogs or horses.
Do you think there may be some genetic basis for why the Olympic sprinting and NBA is dominated by black players or is that entirely attributable to environment as well? It seems to me that if you can draw a correlation between some heritable trait and the population of folks that most people would call black, then you should explain why you would exclude intelligence as a heritable trait that the group of people we call black can pass on to their children. I hjave no doubt that environment has a lot to do with how black children perform on IQ tests but just saying that there are environmental factors doesn’t exclude the possibility of genetic factors.
Yeah, I’m pretty comfortable categorically stating that racism played a BIG part in that.
You have a hypothesis with some data supporting you, but you have not exactly proven your point. What weakens your argument is that you refuse to acknowledge that environmental factors are probably still the largest factor in explaining any differences in IQ score.
IIRC, there had in fact been convergence of IQ scores. There is evidence that this convergence slowed starting in the 1970’s. This maybe the result of social programs or simply the result of a slower pace of economic advancement by the black community. Its also when rap music got starts… just saying…
Conservatives would point out that those programs have actually been counterproductive. They point to the slowing of the IQ convergence as one data point supporting their position.
I would suggest that there are some toxic elements of black culture that that are not only tolerated but celebrated. Black guys used to call other black guys “brother” now they call them “nigger” they used to call black women “sister” not they call them “bitches” and “hos” The glorification of violence, the disdain for academics, the priorities in the family and the communities. I agree wtih Flynn on many of these points. Its just toxic..
On top of that, you add the widespread poverty, racism, lack of role models, high incarceration rate and its not really that surprising that the black community is largely dysfunctional.
IIRC, the higher up in the socioeconomic spectrum you go, the less of a disparity you tend to see. Poor blacks seem to do far worse than their poor white counterparts while rich blacks only do moderately worse than their rich white counterparts. The notion seems to be that racism compounds the effects of poverty and any innate differences in IQ (if any).
Most of what made the Republicans a viable party is the increasing pace of social change that we have experienced in the last 50 years. We’re not about to put women back in the kitchen, take the vote away from blacks, or ban abortion.
My old high school was attacked as racist because admission was based on a standardized test and the black and hispanic enrollment was disproportionately low. This was called racist. It was bullshit. The city even started a program giving free test prep in black and hispanic neighborhoods and it made little to no difference.
Are you saying that genes have NOTHING to do with it?
The tigermom meme has created a double standard for Asian kids. When an Asian kid gets a good SAT score, its because thei mothers practically took the SATs for them. When a white kid does well, its natural ability, after all white kids just fall out of bed one day and take the SATS while Asians kids start preparing for the SATs in utero. I don’t see any difference ebtween the emphasis that Asian parents place on education and the emphasis that almost any immigrant or middle class parent of bright children place on education.
Are you under the impression that dumb people cannot shoot or bomb smart people?
Yeah cuz when the Romans conquered the Greeks it was because of Rome’s intellectual sueriority. :rolleyes:
And if those standardized IQ scores were not the best predictors we have on a whole range of other things then i would also be inclined to dismiss those scores as meaningless but high IQ scores mean more than the ability to take IQ tests well.
But do you think genetics might explain any of that discrepancy?
I remember reading somewhere that the average IQ of subsaharan africans was somewher around 65. That would put the average subsaharan african was moron level mentally retarded. Its hard to believe that these test scores have any validity.
I notice that a lot of the arguments for lack of heritable intelligence also confuse sufficiency for necessity. But considering that I agree taht teh burden lies with the person making the more extraordinary claim, I think at best we can call NDD’s claim an opinion or a hypothesis but I don’t know how people can be so goddam certain that genetics have nothing to do with it.
There are all sorts of studies on the IQ of adopted children that show IQ disparities consistent with the IQ disparities. Why do Asian kids adopted into white households tend to outperform white kids (of the same socioeconomic level) raised by their natural parents? Are adoptive parents more likely to be tiger moms? Sure there are all sorts of other factors and especially with blacks (stereotype threat, caste effect, etc.) but why the gap with hispanics in countries like Mexico, where is the stereotype threat there, where are the pernicious effects of racism there?
I think we have in fact seen a shift in entry of blacks into the American middle class. I think we have in fact seen those entrants maintain that socioeconomic in following generations. I suspect that if we stopped all affirmative action today, the black middle class would not collapse on itself.
You’ve got to measure this stuff over decades if not generations. Over the decades, IQs have converged.
That 15 IQ points you mention from time to time is probably closer to 10 points right now.
No, thats not really true, not in this case. Where you have multiple signifcant other factors that could explain the correlation, you can’t declare victory by simply showing correlation. You might be right but you might not.
Show me that racism no longer exists and that we are at the resting state absent racism and we can stop. I am not anywhere close to convinced that racism isn’t a significant issue any more.
However you define “racism” you will probably agree that there is less of it now than in 1960. Unfortunately, black rates of crime are higher than they were then. Black rates of illegitimacy are much higher. There has been little improvement in academic performance.
What we are talking about here is interpreting statistics, research methodology, and integrating it with our subjective experiences.
What are your qualifications to interprete the science?
Wow, this thread moves fast.
Maybe and maybe not. Maybe other factors have been sufficient to offset any benefit from civil rights legislation. Many conservatives argue that civil rights legislation and initiatives such as affirmative action do little more than infantilize blacks and make them dependent on government assistance. Although I won’t subscribe to a theory like that it carries as much a priori plausibility as your own, which should be sophisticated enough to describe why it’s the more likely explanation.
Problem is, a thousand and one theories explain this and most of them don’t involve differences in IQ between races being primarily genetic. It just won’t do to state outright that forty years should have been time enough — you need to describe in more detail why civil rights legislation would have reduced the IQ gap if your theory were wrong. That is: you need to supply a coherent (if incomplete) model of the determinants of intelligence. Elsewhere you write that those who point out how correlation does not imply causation do so as a last resort. But that’s not a last resort; taking confounding factors into account is just what it means to do thorough, convincing causal analysis.
I also wonder if you addressed, somewhere, my pointing out that the mean IQ in Thailand is 87. Does this not falsify your theory? If it doesn’t falsify your theory, then why do the factors which explain Thailand’s relatively low IQ not apply elsewhere? I’m not suggesting they don’t, but it’s something you can’t ignore if your goal is convincing others.
Sure, what’s the problem with it?
Is it your position that if Person X is less intelligent than Person Y, then Person X is necessarily inferior to Person Y?
Dude, your ‘‘arguments’’ are so beyond the bounds of rationality and decency that there really isn’t any impetus to debate with you. It would be like arguing with a four year old. It’s absurd that you think a few insults posted on a message board are even in the same league as the horror that your moronic ideas visit upon the world. I could viciously insult you every day for the rest of your life and never do as much harm as you have.
I have responded calmly and in a civil manner to the insults that have been thrown at me. My arguments are rational, and based on facts that I document.
How have I done any harm by telling the truth? Charles Murray put it best when he wrote,“specific policies based on premises that conflict with scientific truths about human beings tend not to work. Often they do harm.”
http://www.bible-researcher.com/murray1.html
As it becomes increasingly obvious that No Child Left Behind has failed, and as more is learned about the human genome, it will become increasingly obvious that there are important relationships between genes, IQ, success in life, race and crime.
The dogma that the races were equal grew out of a revulsion against the racial policies of the Nazis. As more time passes that revulsion will fade.
Those theories are obviously wrong. I suspect that many are presented dishonestly by people who do not really believe them. What matters is that expensive efforts to bridge the race gap in academic performance always fail.
Hey, kids, can you say Idee fixe?
I knew you couldn’t. 