Seeking relationship advice (long)

Hmmmm…

I think if there’s any chance of repairing the relationship, of making things work out, of establishing mature communication, of loving the other person (not necessarily feeling in love again, although it’s a bad sign if it’s completely absent), then I think divorce should be avoided.

I feel divorce is a terrible, awful thing, and it should be a true last resort. Still, this quote of yours is so tellling:

You have to think about why you married him. You have to think about what you mean when you say you love him. I think these things call for couple’s counseling. I feel like I’m bucking the tide here, but I feel that Dopers are too quick to call for divorce.

I’m not saying divorce would never be right. If you find either you or your partner unable or unwilling to patch things up, then yes, but I think you owe it to yourself, your husband, and the marriage to try therapy. Geez I sound so patronizing. I’m sorry it sounds like you’ve been through Hell. If my advice is offbase please ignore it.

You’ve probably hated him at times, now you’re just weary. Weariness is not something on which to found a relationship.

I can sympathize first hand with the feeling of ‘Why did it have to come to this before you realized we were important?’ When I had to answer that question for myself, I ended up with an answer of ‘He’s just scared of his life changing’. It’s comfortable because you’re in it and it’s known. Unknown and having to risk your feelings again is scary. Being tethered to him with a child as Kalypso said is even scarier.

I know I’m not asking you anything that you haven’t asked yourself before, but what makes you think that this isn’t just good behavior for him? That without your constant vigilance about the boundaries, that he isn’t going to revert? Do you want to do that kind of babysitting of an adult?

At the very least, maybe you should move out again. There’s no reason that he can’t improve himself while living on his own.

Six years ago my now-ex asked for a divorce. I sobbed, begged and pleaded with him to get counseling, even though I was horribly unhappy, as obviously he was. But we had two kids, I thought we should give it a chance. He would not consider it. About a year after it was final, I woke up one morning and realized, I was content, even happy. I didn’t have to wait for him to come home at night, not knowing what mood he would be in, a knot forming in my stomach when the garage door opened. I didn’t have to anticipate his crappy schedule or temper. I was no longer verbally and emotionally abused.

My point is that it sounds to me that you are so miserable that you can’t see what your reality is, and certainly can’t contemplate what a future would be like if your circumstances are different (and better). Life is good! And even if you can’t imagine being in another relationship at this point, being alone isn’t a bad thing AT ALL! I can’t make myself advocate for a divorce even having been through one, and now being in a vastly improved situation. I guess this is just to tell you that life can be good. Take all of the wonderful advice in this thread and DO SOMETHING. You will feel much better after the first step, then the second, and on and on and on.

GOOD LUCK!

It sounds to me like you should end the relationship.

It reminds me of the end of a great movie. “Ol Yeller”.

You have to ‘put down’ this relationship.

What you have to do is horrible but necessary and you should show him respect by doing in a quick, clean, and brave fashion.

OK, time for an update.

I had an appointment with my therapist today, and she advised taking things slowly, deciding what I really want. I tend to shut people out when I’m stressed (and I am right now, with all this, plus work), and that makes everything more difficult.

So huz and I had a talk tonight. I didn’t bring up the kids thing, but we talked about a lot of other stuff. Calmly. Rationally. And it felt really good. He’s learning to let down his defenses and that helps me do the same. It’s a long road, but I feel like it’s one we have to at least try. If it still turns out we’re not right for each other…at least we both know that we’ve tried our best.

As far as the kids question goes…As I said before, adoption is something I’ve thought for a long time would be my preference. So I feel like there’s a little time here. If we’re not figuring things out in a year’s time, say…that may change things. But for now, I’m willing to wait and see.

Thanks again to everyone for your advice and support. I think just hearing from others who’ve been there and survived is hugely helpful.

I’ve debated about whether or not to post here, but I kind of feel the need to say this, even though it’s rather late in the thread and slightly off-topic:

Please don’t have/adopt kids with him unless you are sure his anger problems are resolved. Few things test one’s patience like little children, and having been raised by an angry man with an explosive temper, I can tell you that it can leave you with lasting issues. At the very least, it’s a terrible example to set for a kid.

Maybe this isn’t true for most kids, I can only tell you from my experience, so take that into consideration:

My father is a yeller (I think I actually might be able to say ‘was.’ He does a lot better these days). He seemed so out of control when he was angry that I always expected to be hit at some point, but to his credit he never actually did so, though I saw him push my brother once. There were a couple of times when his anger was so immense and irrational that I found myself paralyzed in the face of it. Kids don’t have the experience and perspective of adults, and it was a long time before I categorized his behavior as inappropriate, rather than a matter of me being an insensitive idiot when it comes to judging what will anger other people. I still find it hard to say anything that might be offensive to someone because I kind of feel like I’m walking through a minefield with no map and poor judgment. I’m always pleasantly surprised when I have to have a possibly confrontational conversation with someone and they handle it well. I’m still quite young, though (23), so I hope over time it will become easier for me.

To my lasting shame, I also developed a temper very much like his until I realized in my mid-teens that I was behaving in the same hurtful way he was, even though I knew first-hand what it was like to be on the receiving end of it. I don’t know that I’ll ever be able to forgive myself for the way I treated my (all younger) siblings.

Don’t assume that you will be able to tell by his behavior in your presence that he is dealing with anger appropriately with the kid(s). My father behaved much better when dealing with or in front of my mom. I think she thought I was just exaggerating for years (not entirely out of the question - I was a little drama queen) until she accidentally witnessed a particularly bad incident.

I feel like I’ve said too much and should have stopped before adding so many personal details, that I should just keep my mouth shut and not bad-mouth my father so much. But it isn’t mine to be ashamed of, really, plus it took a lot of time to write out, and I suppose if it helps some other kid out there, it will have been worth it.

In any case, I think you’re on the right track with therapy, and I hope things work out for you, however it is you reach that point.

Thanks for sharing your story, supergoose. Yes, that’s precisely why I hesitate to even think about the kids thing with him. He used to yell at me like that, and it’s horrifying. I would never want to put a kid in that situation.

Until and unless I know he has his temper under control, I’m not even going to consider the idea with him. And if that doesn’t happen and I realize that yes, I do want to be a mom…well, that makes the choice for me.

No just piss off and get divorced. You have no commitment to him.

Watch his eyes when you tell him it is over, at some level he will feel relieved. The poor schmuck isn’t being himself, he is just trying to get through each day without pissing you off. A clean break would be a kindness.

I need to share some information as an adoptive parent.

Adoption options start closing at the same time as fertility options. There are LOTS of adoption options out there, but programs that involve healthy infants often have age restrictions. One of the sad truths about adoption is that people often don’t look into it until they’ve exhausted their own fertility options, and then discover that at 43, there aren’t too many adoption options either.

The other thing is that a homestudy is not a slam dunk thing to pass - particularly if you have abuse in your background and he has a history of anger issues. Agencies are very likely to go over you with a fine tooth comb - they are going to want to review your medical background, get your therapists records, talk to your friends. It is possible to snow your social worker, but probably not a good idea (I know more than one person who was out $20k and no child when the agency found out they’d been lied to).

If you are looking towards adopting a waiting child (probably older, perhaps with some special needs), things are a little different. If you are thinking that after “some time” you’ll be able to quickly adopt a baby in your 40s, you may find that not a workable plan. It does happen, but it isn’t a slam dunk. (Some international adoptions - China in particular - prefer older parents. However I recently heard the wait on China is currently several years to get through their system).

Let me offer a contrarian view here. You’ve been with this guy almost 20 years, right?

  1. Are you sure that you aren’t just bored with the relationship and feel that the grass might be greener somewhere else?

  2. Unless the guy is really abusive, as opposed to sometimes gets angry like a normal person, are you projecting stress from other issues onto your relationship?

  3. Do you really want to be single at 37? That by itself isn’t a reason to stay, however the reality is that at your age, the pool of eligable bachelors starts to get a little shallow. I have a lot of single friend girls who seem to find a never ending parade of freaks, players, permenant bachelors, arrested developed types and people with all kinds of issues.

In other words, don’t throw away a 17 year relationship because you have some nebulous idea of a “perfect guy” out there.

That is abusive, not just angry like a normal [healthy, functional] person.