Ok, the thread where I’ve picked up this quote has been closed. But still I want to know whether it’s true or not, without any regard to its original context.
“Semen contains virtually every germ carried in the blood stream, so this [swallowing semen] is about equivalent to ingesting raw human blood.”
Seems rather implausible to me, but… any comments?
Of course, your stomach acid is capable of killing just about every “germ” that lives in raw human blood, so even if true, it’s not such a big deal.
And here I thought that human blood was sterile, unless a person had a septic infection.
Oops… just to cite the most famous example: HIV?
Any germs would likely be killed in the cooking process.
But back to the topic… I firmly believe in this evolutionary/survival-of-the-fittest stuff. So what’s the long-term benefit of putting germs into semen?
Thanks for your reply, AndrewL. But my main point was the first part of the quote.
What’s the long-term benefit of putting germs anywhere? None, to the host, but plenty to the germ. Remember, semen is designed to host living cells, and what’s good for a sperm will be good for a bacterium.
Ok, I’m speculating wildly (if only I had paid better attention in my biology classes), but isn’t there some kind of “placenta barrier” in male gonads?
I’m flummoxed, here. I’ve read several places that, unless the person has a urinary infection, urine is pretty much sterile. I’m not well versed on the mechanics of the testes, prostate, and the other sources of seminal fluid, but I’m skeptical of the premise that semen contains germs. The OP said the quote had disappeared. Does anyone else have an answer for this?
So am I!
Well, it hasn’t. But the source isn’t particularly trustworthy.
First of all, I think we need to define “germs” here.
There are certainly diseases which can be spread via semen, but the presence of a particular organism in a specific bodily fluid doesn’t necessarily mean it can be transmitted via that bodily fluid. Most diseases have a “critical mass” required for transmission. The concentration of a given organism in different bodily fluids may vary dramatically, even though it can be detected in all of them. Sometimes organisms prefer a certain kind of cell (HIV sure does) and are spread more easily through bodily fluids in which those specific cells occur in high concentration than in those where they do not.
I have several friends who only have one risk factor for Hepatitis B, and that risk factor has been fellatio (yes, they were silly not to get themselves inmmunised), but the specialists who treat them are convinced that the virus is more likely to have entered their bloodstream through mucous membranes or tiny oral abrasions than through having been swallowed and somehow surviving the onslaught of gastric juices.
I’m on another messageboard right now with a whole lot of people whose field this is. If no-one minds, I’ll link to this GQ.
I certainly don’t. (Mind, that is.)
I’m on the ghf site now and I’m damned if I can find the stuff which was posted here yesterday anywhere on their site. If someone has a link to it, could you email it to me so that I can post it on the other messageboard for our scientists to rebutt? Thanks.
Done.
Please remember that it’s only this one point in their ramblings I’m interested in. Thanks, and let’s not get this topic out of hand.
I don’t think any one of us want to get this topic out of hand.
One comment the scientists who’ve viewed the site so far have made is that the bibliography is fairly sucky. The “research” they are using to support many of their viewpoints is either very old or so badly referenced that it’s extremely hard to track down and evaluate for things like sample size, methodology, control groups etc.
If you want to know what the scientists are saying, I posted the question here. The forum is open to everyone, you don’t have to register. As it’s hosted on government servers, though, only very minor cuss words are acceptable.
Cecil on caloric content of semen, anyway. He doesn’t go into the specifics of ingredients, but compares it nutritionally to egg white.
I really doubt that semen is full of “germs” unless the guy has certain infections.
I don’t know the answer but…
There are bacteria in the blood stream and viruses.
Bacteria and viruses can exist practically everywhere on our bodies.
It is highly possible that the semen contain viruses and bacteria and I highly doubt it does not after ejaculation as it travels through the ducts and the tip of the penis.
These areas should be filled with bacteria as it is warm, high N content and C source.
The semen should be at least coated with spores if not actual bacteria.
As for swallowing semen, your mouth and digestive tract have more bacteria than the semen you are ingesting. That I can guarantee.
As for equating your blood and semen, all viruses in the blood stream should exist in the semen, but not bacteria. viruses are so small and if they exist in ur blood stream, they will have traveled thru the organs that produce semens. I am not an expert, but I don’t remember reading of any special membranes to prevent anything out of these reproductive organs like how our brain has it to prevent bact/viruses from traveling to the brain.
hrm… coming from a bacteria view, it should take at least an hour after the semen is produced in the glands to be filled with bacteria.
i will also think if there are a lot of bacteria which is different than saying that bacteria exists in semen. (i think i misread when first posting.) then, i would think the person’s organ will swell, as the body will attack the bacteria.
I don’t remember the name of the barrier people are thinking of, but there is a barrier in the testes to spearate the sperm from the rest of the germ cells. The reason for this is that sperm, being haploid, are different than the other cells in the body, and the barrier is in place to prevent the immune system from attacking the “foreign” cells. There are cells between the sperm and the bloodstream/rest of body that act as support cells for the sperm, to ensure that they receive what they need to live.
Hence, if there are germs on the sperm side of the testes (in the ducts, etc) then they are somewhat protected from the immune system and might live quite well, assuming they can also get what they need to survive.
That was a WAG, btw, but based on my fuzzy recollection of the biology diagram we were shown in class last year.
Ok, where to get started.
There is no sort of thing as an anti-pathogen barrier. No sort of biological membrane in humans exists that prevents pathogens, or anything from being transmitted from one area to the other. (Blood-brain barrier is a myth)
Ok, the question about pathogens (not germs) in spooge (I really like that word for some reason).
So we have a few questions that need to be delt with first.
Ie, where could the germs come from.
Germs exist in the reproductive cells of the male.
HIV really likes the gonads. HIV can be there. However, pathogens (especially viruses) will only attack a specific cell type. Viruses need to reversibly bind to surface proteins on cells to then enter into the cell and infect it. This binding is reasonably specific, so you will get different viral serotypes that will only attack certain proteins. The protein in question, and how many cells express it will determine the population of cells that can be infected.
Now we have reproductive cells and their precursors. Its a bad idea to have those cells infected, esperically with retroviruses (viruses that intergrate their genome into the host genome). [Not listing the reason for this unnesseccary and useless] Obviously there is going to be a strong immune response to try to prohibit this, so I’d imagine that the overall chance of infection to sperm precursors is low, maybe lower than partially differenciated stem cells.
Ok, we’re now working with the assumption that sperm itself has a very low possibility of being infected. But there still could be germs in semen. Where else could they come form?
What about the fluid that the sperm is in? For that to happen, since we are dealing with a partially closed system (what I’m getting at here is that there is not blood flow in the same duct system and that for the most part it is isolated from the rest of the bodies functions… will get to this later) viral particles could come from one of two places. They could come from secratory cells (prostate and all those other things I once learned about in 8th grade but since forgot). However the mechanisms of secretion usually works on gated transport and selectable permiability. A virus is a HELL of a lot bigger than protein and freaking HUGE compaired to the biochemical components of semen so we’re not gonna get a virus popping out of the secratory cells. There is the possibility of cell lysis due to a viral infection but as far as i know I don’t know of any prostate specific infections.
The second viruses could be picked up from the cells that make the ducts the sperm travels in, these would be viral particles left attached to those cells which make up the ducts or viral particles released from cells as they die. Ok, the only other biological function that uses the same duct work as ejaculation is urination. And urine is VERY clean pathogen wise. Usually it only contains nitrogen waste, H2O and solutes the body is getting rid of. If you have an incredably sever infection, you have expell some white blood cells, but usually urine is pretty damn clean.
So, I think that a) the chance of cells involved with semen production have a relatively low chance for viral expression b) very little chance of virus being picked up as semen leaves the body so that semen would be much cleaner than blood. However since it contains more cells than urine I’d say it would be more contaminated (I’m talking in terms of pathogens here) than urine.
Keep in mind, I’m dealing with viral pathogens here and don’t have a freaking clue about bacteria. I’d say your worst chance of infection comes from oral contact with the genitals. Fecal contamination, and the fact that its a warm moist enclosed enviroment problem makes it field day for bacteria. (Viruses don’t really care about that unless those conditions make them unstable, and only replicate INSIDE a cell where exterior conditions don’t impact the inside of the cell except where they are severe enough to inhibit the cellular mechanisms for viral replication.)
Anyhoo,
Take home message: Make him wash with 75% reagent grade ethanol down there to get him nice 'n clean then go hog wild. Granted that may burn a litte so he probably won’t e in a mood.
(PS) There’s a reason why I take a shower fairly recently before I think I’m gonna get some, I’d rather be nice and clean if someone is gonna stick their head in my crotch.