I don’t see anyone here shaming anyone for feeling a certain way. No one here is saying that lonely guys aren’t entitled to their feelings or that their feelings are invalid.
But the Incel mindset is shameful. Anyone openly espousing that mindset deserves to be mocked, ridiculed, and told to sit their ass down somewhere. We do this with non-Incel racists and sexists, and while these people haven’t been completely silenced, at least they don’t enjoy the respect that is granted to more reasonable voices. There is no need to treat Incels with extra kid gloves.
We’re treating incels the same way we treat members of the KKK, or NAMBLA, or neo-Nazis, etc. The mockery and harsh criticism is a big part of why those groups are so unpopular. Why should incels be treated differently?
My point is that expecting angry people (for any cause - but in this case, incels) to respond to mockery and ridicule or criticism with calm, thoughtful serious self-contemplation and repentance of their path is utterly unrealistic to expect. If they were that way, they wouldn’t be incels/KKK/al-Qaeda in the first place.
If a road-rage motorist steps out of his car with a crowbar and approaches you on the highway, then roll down your window and calmly tell him that he is a loser, that he is wrong and you are right, and that he needs mental help. After you’ve rechecked the details on your health and life insurance, that is.
But we’re on a message board. What’s wrong with mocking the despicable (in addition to talking about how to improve society such that fewer people end up becoming incels) on a message board?
In the U.S., we are quite fortunate to have a gender ratio that approaches 1:1. In addition, polygamous relationships are the exception rather than the rule, significantly more men are incarcerated than women, and males also more likely to die at a young age. Men are also more likely to be gay than women.
Just on the basis of pure numbers, I’m not seeing a shortage situation that significantly disadvantages men. If there are a ton of single men out there, given the conditions laid out above, math dictates that there are also a ton of single women out there.
If the Incel himself has bottom-tier desirability–perhaps due to his weight, perhaps due to his personality, perhaps due to his lack of employment–he doesn’t have to resign himself to staying in this tier. He can improve his chances of finding someone simply by changing one of the variables that is within his control. He can also open up his options by pursuing the interest of women that are within his league. These are two things that could alter their prospects radically. And yes, it does come down to changing their attitude.
The problem is that many Incels don’t see any point to changing their attitude. Because they have a fixed mindset. Everything is destined to be as it is because of genes.
Reverse all the societal and cultural signals that tell boys and young men that they ought to be sexually aggressive, and that sex should be seen akin to conquest; end cultural double standards for gender and sexuality (i.e. promiscuous men are celebrated, while promiscuous women are denigrated); emphasize that the most important thing about sexual and intimate relationships is consent, and that violating consent should be considered entirely anathema, such that someone who bragged about violating consent would be seen by society as a monster, rather than becoming elected president; and much more, usually along the lines of demonstrating that women are fully functional and able human beings, and treating them, even rhetorically, like livestock or objects is monstrous, aside from consensual relationships in which such treatment is desired by both parties.
This is akin to telling terrorists, “You need to respect society. The rules of law and decency prohibit terrorism. People have the right to not conform to your demands. They also have the right not to be blown up or shot or stabbed, and your use of violence towards your ends or goals is wrong.”
In other words, it all sounds right and good, but the terrorist is apt to ask, “Well, what’s in it for me? How does this get me what I want?”
If you want to spend time negotiating with fanatical bigots, feel free. I think trying to prevent folks from joining the ranks of those fanatical bigots is much more likely to succeed than trying to change those fanatical and bigoted minds.
As for what an incel gets from that better society – a chance at a loving and positive relationship. But based on their rhetoric, most of them want rape-slaves. I’m not sure what your preferred debating strategy is with people who want rape-slaves.
I’d also add that we make sure boys have access to a diverse pool of positive role models that eschew toxic masculinity stereotypes. Make sure they grow up seeing women in non-objectified ways as well.
Boys that show signs of low resiliency, low empathy, low self-esteem, and defeatist thinking also need to be identified from a young age and helped. Without empathy, it’s hard to develop the kind of self-awareness needed to develop socially; you’ll continue to be blind to instructive feedback from others because you can’t put yourself in others’ shoes.
A lot of people have to live with not getting things they want, including sexual encounters with partners whom they judge to be the most desirable. How many of them, like Elliot Rodger, perpetuate ideologies like this —
Not “a lot.” All.All people have to live with not getting things they want. I think if you want to summarize why most folks have so little sympathy for this sad little subgroup, it’s because “not getting exactly what you want” is a part of the human condition, shared by every person who has ever lived long enough to want anything. It’s not a cause for sympathy.
Get rid of the hyper-sexualized message that society sends to people that “it is the norm to have sex early and often and virgins who miss out are losers.” That sort of taunting message radicalizes certain people very easily, akin to “It’s normal in America to own a house and two cars, and if you’re poor, sucks to be you.”
Squelch the misleading notion in society that “dating and relationships are easy” - sure, for many people it is, but for many others, they are not, and those who say it is tough and hard, aren’t making it up, any more than a jobless unemployed person saying that “it’s hard to find a job” is trolling for sympathy. Tell young people, especially, that they should not expect it to be easy, that in fact many people end up lonely or sexless for decades, and that an expectation that it will be easy will only worsen their misery should it not be.
Tell incels that violence won’t do a bit to help their cause, and will only make their cause look worse.
A vigorous, comprehensive, anti-bullying campaign in schools across the nation. Elliott Rodger wrote in his manifesto about how he was bullied in school. No doubt it contributed at least in part to who he was.
Along the lines of 1#, put an end to all virgin-shaming. There is a movement afoot to end slut-shaming in America, so why should virgin-shaming be regarded any different.
Essentially, take incels seriously while not condoning any incel violence. In the same way that we can note why certain factors contributed to the rise of Islamic terrorism (i.e., Western exploitation of Middle Eastern oil, propping up of regimes, the war in Iraq, shootdown of the 1980s Iranian airliner, Western sterotyping of Arabs, etc.) while not condoning Islamic violence, we can also seriously listen to and understand why incels become incels, and where they come from, while not condoning incel violence.
Well at least he didn’t advocate women be turned into sex slaves.
Although I’m still hazy on why starving us all to death is preferable to outright extermination. The longer you keep us alive, the more desperate we will become. Desperate women are liable to pull out all the stops…do we really think sex-deprived guards could resist feminine wiles besieging them 150-million strong? It would only take one moment of forgetfulness when locking the cage door because of the promise of a flashed boob, and it’s over.
Given magical powers? I’d eradicate internet communities. (Yes, including this one.) In my opinion they’ve done more harm than good in general, and with regard to the specific case of Incels eradicating internet communities would cause them to completely cease to exist within a generation - and to functionally cease to exist within twenty years.
It’s a fact that not all men can find partners; I should know, I’m an unhappily single man. But this incel shit is a completely different deal than being single; it’s a toxic mindset that’s taught. It’s not loneliness, it’s malignant misogyny and hatred. Even if we somehow caused sex slaves to appear and gave each of them a sex slave they wouldn’t improve, because their problem is no longer loneliness, it’s that they’re now sexist hate-filled shitstains, and they’d remain sexist hate-filled shitstains even if they had a sex slave to abuse.
Being lonely happens because you’re unable to find a partner. Being an incel happens because you were radicalized by a hate group on the internet. They’re two separate things.