How does that contradict what I said? Yes, there are quite a few crude male techies. Yes, male techies in general don’t engage in niceties as much as other professions do. Yes, male techies often joke in a way that would be considered inappropriate in some other professions.
And yes, female programmers are as- or more-appreciated than men.
Having once lost an engineering job to a women with an art degree I can understand your frustration.
In my case it was a matter of a company trying to make up for years of preferential treatment to white males and compensating for it by using a scoring system which gave high scores to race and gender over technical knowledge and experience.
You’re an inspiration to everyone.
I’m a white male and the same thing happened used to happen to me. I got better at presenting, and that usually means taking steps beforehand to make sure the presentation will be accepted. I do have a penis though, and unfortunately there are still a lot of assholes who consider themselves to be men but are lacking one. Sexism is definitely a problem in the workplace, but so is general unfair treatment of people without regard to gender. The ‘Old Boys Club’ doesn’t have open membership for all old boys.
So OP, tell us more how this guy ended up giving your presentation. Did he steal it or were you in on it with him? Did he give you credit?
It mostly hasn’t happened to me on the job, probably because I’ve mostly worked in fields that have a high percentage of women, but I’m fecking tired of getting treated like an idiot at the hardware store or the auto parts store just because I have a pair of X chromosomes. I’ve literally had a clerk refuse to sell me a starter relay for my own car because he assumed I didn’t know what one of those was, much less that I needed one. I had a mechanic refuse to do a minor repair on my car until I confirmed that my husband was okay with it. I bought the part somewhere else, and bought a soldering iron and did the job that the mechanic wouldn’t. (Both of these occurred around 1995 or '96!) I’m almost past noticing salespeople who hear me ask a question, but answer my husband. (Or memorably, my son. He was with me when I was buying a lawn mower. I’d ask a question, and the salesman would address my teenage son with the answer. Boy 2.0 finally raised an eyebrow and asked the guy why he was talking to the kid, and not the lady who had the questions and the money, and who had taught the kid everything he knew about lawn mowers. It was hilarious, and we both laughed all the way to another store.) But dammit, nothing about lawn mowers or battery relays or buying lumber requires a penis!
A few examples from my experience:
I was once asked to leave the room so that the other men could curse. And yes, that really was all that happened.
People sometimes assume that I am my boss’s assistant and not an engineer simply because I am working with him. To be fair, I was also inexperienced but I don’t think people would have made the same assumption if I were male.
My boss’s boss often asks me to handle administrative things and regularly relies on the very few women in his group to handle these things. This includes thing like ordering food, reserving conference rooms and ordering office supplies. My boss doesn’t like it when he does that.
People sometimes won’t let me do things they would do themselves in the same situation. This is usually related to looking at old equipment that are packed into warehouses.
These are all little things and I usually don’t let it get to me. But, sometimes, late at night, it does get to me.
He scrapes by, privilege check to privilege check.
You have an interesting way of defining “appreciate”.
Yes. One time I went with someone I supervise to a review meeting and everyone took him to be the boss and me to be the trainee. He’s a white man and I’m an Asian woman.
One time I signed up to install a new equipment, but when it arrived the guys did not call me. When I inquired they told me the equipment was heavy, but they call a scrawny man about 30 pounds lighter than me and 3 inches shorter anyway. Same for the water cooler bottles.
Last night was one of those nights.
I think this is easy to say when you haven’t personally experienced such treatment. I tend to defer to those who have, and trust that their analysis of their personal experience is mostly true.
But people fool themselves and lie to themselves and misinterpret others’ motivations all the time. I can understand taking the word of someone you know and whose character you’re familiar with, but why would you by default trust the testimony of a stranger online? They could be lying, or crazy, or recounting a second or third hand story, or just plain flat out wrong? And even if none of those things apply, they’re only presenting one side of the story. Surely the sensible thing to do is just choose not to have an opinion one way or the other?
I mean that, all things being equal, I trust that, in general, most women aren’t lying when they talk about sexism they have experienced. Similarly, I trust that, in general, most black people aren’t lying when they talk about racism that they have experienced. Of course some of these individuals will be lying or mistaken, but I think it’s reasonable to assume that most of them are not.
What does that even mean, anyway, “choose not to have an opinion one way or the other?”
It’s an internet message board. You mash the keypad with your palms until some terrible opinion about something comes out the other end. Choosing not to have an opinion and deciding to express your skepticism about this one specific issue are different things. Unless I’ve missed magellan and JVDaly’s similar contributions in all the other threads about people’s lives where they are similarly devoted to agnosticism.
I’m seeing this word more and more. I have a feeling it’s going to be troublesome for me as it becomes mainstream.
Reasonable, but still worth examination. Losers who weep even though they’ve been treated fairly sometimes weep the loudest. I agree with your general idea though, members of a class of people who have been routinely discriminated against are going to see it a lot and will mostly be revealing the truth. It makes sense to consider they are more likely to be facing actual class discrimination than those of us lucky enough be given the benefit of the doubt for not being apparently different.
What are you trying to say?
I won’t worry about it until it becomes manstream.
I mansplain everything to everybody, regardless of gender, because of my default position that everybody is an idiot. What we can do is bring back “old wives’ tale” to describe the mix of hogwash and just-so stories we often get when people explain stuff. It’s suitably dismissive and sexist, just like “mansplain.”
It just seems like it’s going to be another easy way for people to put themselves above a discussion. Much like how “little man syndrome” is used to describe a short guy when he does something assertive, I’m getting the vibe “mansplaining” is going to be used to describe a guy when he describes something in a way that makes the audience feel like they’re stupid (or something like that).
I’d bet your cis too. It’s assholes like you that ruined the world. Welcome to my ignore list you sexist fuck.