Shadowrun 4 review

Well, I just had a look at Shadowrun 4, the latest edition of the classic cyberpunk fantasy game.

I’m less than impressed.

It’s not a bad game now and never has been. I can’t say that. It’s just that they really “dumbed it down.” (Now, for those of you who don’t know me very well, I hate those words and dislike using them. But that’s what it amounts to.)

The Problem I have with it is that they simplified things to the point where it’s not very interesting anymore. They do write it more clearly, which is a plus and may attract new players. But for us old-hands, there’s nothing here to care about. It’s not real interesting and offer very, very few new options. I haven’t checked out every nook and crany, but it seems that the only major change (in the system) doesn’t actually alter the final dice pools very much.
They basically stole the White Wolf System, except they use d6’s and stats and attributes go to 6 instead of d10’s and 5. You add your relevant stat and skill together for most tasks. Cyberware and magic can add to this number (the dice pool), but can only add +50%. Also, the character creation scheme (now fully point-buy, Yaaay!) makes your characters pretty, well, average (Noooo!). Even a starting Shadowrunner was once elite. All rolls of 5 or 6 succeed, and is rated solely on the number of successes.

It also adds in one of my pet peeves, which was not present under the old system: it’s mathematically best to be start good in a few areas, since it’s easy to buy up low skills and attributes. But a starting character is not longer distinctly better, even doing this, than a reasonably bright, fit adult.

The problem? White Wolf’s system is made for this. Shadowrun is not. There’s now relatively little difference between a supposedly runner and a thug. Their “common security guards” as written aren’t so hot, but that’s solely because they went out of their way to give them useless skills. OK, so clubs aren’t the worst weapon ever made, but why do have Clubs 3… and Pistol 1?

One nice thing which I do like is that magic works like all other attributes. Characters can simply buy it up. This was needed, because in Shadowrun mages are literally one-in-a-million. Except that every fraggin’ book forgot that, so even minor, local policlubs often had multiple high-powered mages on-call. Heck, even street gangs often had some hanging around for kicks!

I also like the introduction of skills groups. Firearms was old Shadowrun problem. They didn’t like having all guns as one skill, because that was too easy for the mages to use them. In 3rd edition, they split it up into so many subskills that it was impossible to even be decent with them all, even though it’s not that difficult in real life. Now you can buy groups of skills at a bargain price, which is a good thing all in all.

Last notes on things I didn’t like: Having a luck attribute (Edge) instead of dice pools is fine. Unfortunately, it’s just not nearly as useful. It also takes out most of the tactical thinking. You have no real reason to save points here and use them to accomplish something cool. I think most players will (if they’re smart) never use it for anything except saving their hide from enemy’s attacks - and maybe that one skill roll they need. In other words, it’s fine, except that it only gets used once or twice a session. Maybe actual play will prove different, but I doubt it.

It also means that people trying for a neat trick or stunt have no real chance if they’ve a low skill in it, even if they once might have been able to toss in some Combat Pool dice or something.

Armor is the same, but guns seem much weaker. I’ll have to do some math to double check, but it seems to me that combat could take a VERY long time.

Pricing. They didn’t even think about what changing the costs of some things means to the world. For example, everyone alive should be getting skillwires. It’s so cheap and useful that there’s no reason not to do so now. I’m not limiting this to Shadowrunnners, either! Even corporate wageslaves should probably have skillwires. It’s cheaper than training them and easier than looking for new, experienced ones. There are other problems with costs, but I won’t go into it. Also, since starting money comes directly at the costs of skills and attributes, I thinkmost players will try to pass on it as much as possible.

The initiative system is a little more simplified. This is alright. Nothing really changed that much, though I had to glance through it.

The books looks nice, but the interior is bland even by my standards. The actual amount of art is pretty low. Fortunately it is fairly well-done, with none of that awful cartooniness that plagued early 3rd edition.
Ultimately, it disappoints. I even like less powerful games than normal Shadowrun uses, but this isn’t that interesting to me. It looks like somebody’s weird Shadowrun homebrew, and it certainly doesn’t make me want to play. The rules might be a bit more accessible to a new player, but Shadowrun was hardly the most esoteric system.

I may be being too hard because I’ve seen homebrew’s which were much better. All I can hope for is that the upcoming Shadowrun 4 “more complicated edition” is going to be better. As it is, I’m certainly not going to buy the print edition of this book. I already own Shadowrun 2 and 3, and this isn’t even enough to make me want to play a new game of Shadowrun with them, much less a game of Shadowrun 4.

Interesting, thanks for your thoughts. They align pretty well with mine: the SR4 design team went so far out of its way to make the math simple that much of it is broken: gel rounds are better than armor-piercing ones at dealing damage through armor, when ramming a pedestrian you’re more likely to total a large vehicle than a small one, called shots let you trade one die for one extra point of damage (which requires an expected three dice to soak), and on and on and on.

In the SR group I GM for, the word around the table has been ‘no compelling reason to switch’. Sucks that we’ll hae to convert the pieces of gear worth converting, double sucks that we didn’t get the fixes for SR3’s many peculiarities handed to us, but them’s the breaks. At least SR3R is shaping up.

Thank you for the input. All in all, it would be a great RPG - If *it were the first in the series. * As it is, there’s just little excuse for not doing things right. I wind up feeling neither irritated nor interested, just confused. I can’t think of a compelling reason that they did redesign the system like this.

Ultimately, what it boils down to is taking the highs and lows out of the system. You can easily put the highs back in with more points and relaxing the restrictions, but it’s hard to see how characters will have any weaknesses.

Of course, I’d still like to do some work on SR 4. I have some good ideas for expansions (and by busnes partner has some 60 new metamagic abilities). So maybe we’ll put out a State of the Art book one of these days. Also I’ve got plans for a new and better corporate security book. Here’s hoping they’ll like it.

What are you referring to here? I haven’t heard anything about an upcoming “more complicated edition” of SR4. New sourcebooks, yeah, but no new edition of the main rulebook. (If you mean the Limited Edition, there aren’t any new rules in that one, just 8 more pages of fiction, a leatherette cover, and only 1000 copies.)

I haven’t read it yet, but I’ve heard nothing but good things about it.

The Shadowrun game I’m playing is slowed down several times a session by checking for the rule, what the target number is, and houseruled virtually beyond recognition. Loved the setting, loved the tone, but this was a game desperately in need of revision. They’ve directly adressed many of the problems I’ve had with the game, so I’m looking forward to when I can amanage to snasg a copy.

I’m paticularly found of the new “augmented reality” system. Now deckers can act alongside the group, and don’t fall into their own VR minigame, often while their meat body is miles away from the team and/or target anytime they want to do anything useful.

… So other than game mechanics did they change anything else?

I have never understood why people get out of whack if the rules and systems don’t jibe with how they want to play. It’s your game- Make your own rules.

The big changes are that the game world has moved forward 5 years (so now we’re in 2070), the Matrix crashed in 2065 (see the System Failure sourcebook which is available currently in PDF and will be available in hardcopy format shortly) resulting in general anarchy, the rise and fall of a couple of megacorps, the revamping of the Matrix as wireless, and the creation of “technomancers” (basically adult otaku who don’t need decks to run the Matrix). Oh, and parts of California are (temporarily) under water. :slight_smile:

So yeah, a few things have changed. :slight_smile:

BTW, if I might insert a little plug here, I wrote part of SR4–namely, the “Life on the Edge” chapter and the opening story “Buzzkill,” as well as the story “Reunion” that only appears in the Limited Edition version. I know a lot of people put a lot of hard work into this one, and I for one am proud of the way it turned out. A lot of people at Gen Con were lining up to get it, that’s for sure.

There’s an odd note which implies there’s a new version of the book coming out. It wasn’t clear on what would be included, only that it would have more. Perhaps that’s the limited edition.

Thing is, it screws directly (and very inelegantly) with the core mechanics of the game. It’s not just that it plays differently: it’s a whole different game now. I was hopingfor a change that would revise the rules and smooth gameplay. This system did that by simply changing the game entirely - but it simply introduced new flaws. I think this will backfire in the long run. The rules have too many new holes. The mere fact that they are *unfamiliar * holes isn’t goiing to make them go away.

But that’s just my opinion. I think Torg was the best game ever made, and most gamers probably have never heard of it.

Ah, no, not really. Not a bit of that changes in any way, shape, or form how the game plays and how the story evolves. It’s all the same old stuff in new packaging. That’s not neccessarily bad, mind you, but not a big selling point.

But that’s a totally unrelated pet peeve, and not terribly important. Glad to hear you wrote those sections. *Life on the Edge * was one of my favorite new pieces.