Shadowrun: SNES vs Genesis

So I just started playing through the SNES version of Shadowrun and a few things have struck me. First off, despite being released only a year earlier, the graphics are far inferior to the Genesis version. Also of note is the matrix “hacking” system is completely different in the two games, I personally prefer the Genesis version. Also of note are the gameplay styles. Snes ver is more a linear RPG whereas Genesis version is more a sandbox open-ended action RPG. The combat is a bit more active in the Genesis version.

As for story, though, the SNES version takes the cake here. The story on the Genesis is maybe 30 minutes worth of actual play time (though you have to level a bit before you can complete it) whereas the SNES version is, as a linear RPG needs to be, more fleshed out and full.

Anyway, I’m enjoying the game, of course (and wishing FASA hadn’t given us that x360 title. le sigh. It was a fine game, mind you, but completely lacking in anything single player. Why the hell was there no campaign/story mode for single player? Even Halo, which has a terrible story, has a compaign mode! They could have done so much, instead they just decided to fuck up.) And I’m missing the cyberpunk style. Steampunk is 7 kinds of lame compared to cyberpunk

So what are your thoughts? Which do you prefer and why? Share your opinions, thoughts, comments, girlfriends, whathaveyou.

One of my favorite games ever is Shadowrun for the Super Nintendo. Also, I’m completely fine with no single player mode. Then again, I’m a pretty outspoken advocate of multiplayer gaming. I haven’t played Shadowrun on the 360, but I have heard that it’s pretty underrated. That’s an example of a game that might have been released at the wrong time, though.

I would love to see an updated Shadowrun Game like the Super Nintendo one.

I agree completely that we need a new Shadowrun action RPG of some sort. I was really hoping there’d be that aspect to the x360 game when I first heard it announced, or at least a campaign mode of some kind. But no, they changed it to straight FPS online-only (or offline with bots) and even changed the backstory of the 'run universe.

As for the x360 game… it’s pretty good, I like a lot of what they did, but the ability to improve your character would have been nice (like most FPS’s do now. You earn points with online play and can upgrade your character). It’s set up like Counterstrike, so every new game you enter you start with nothing but a pistol and you have to earn money to buy your upgrades (weapons, magic, and tech). It gets annoying having to wait 2 rounds or so jsut to get your guy set up with a good weapon and the magic/tech you want (I always went for teleportation and glider wings, than switched everything else up depending on what I wanted to do).

I’d have no problem with that, except it’s never played.

The Genesis game was far and away the better, although the SNES game was still quite god and distinctive. I always wondered why they didn’t do sequels or expand on the variety of game. The system/perspective had a lot to reccomend it, but isometric-style titles were few and far between.

I was of this opinion for years, but I’m going back and playing through the SNES game again just cause I’ve beaten the Genesis one so many times, and I have to say I like the SNES version a lot (aside from several annoyances, such as having to bring up the cursor to inspect objects and open doors as opposed to just going up and hitting the button).

Still,I agree, it’s about damn time they came out with a new Shadowrun game in the more traditional RPG style, even if it’s an first person action rpg (I’m thinking along the vein of System Shock, here) I’d be totally down with that. Since Microsoft apparently owns the license now it’s all on them… we might be screwed :wink:

Shadowun is game that I would like to see in an MMRORPG, although it should be nothing like WoW at all. More like an MMORPG sneaker/shooter. And while it should have single-player aspects, group missions should be where it’s at. Karma (experience for non-Shadowrunners) should be hard to come by; quests are more likely to reward you with money and faction rating than anything else.

Now, in order to pave the road for this, I think a really big single-player game should come out. It shouldn’t have top-of-the-line graphics, quite, but should be really nice and big. It should make people feel like they’re in a huge city, and let them wander a bit.

I agree with this somewhat. I like the concept of MMORPGs, but I hate the execution. I had this problem with Neocron, which sounded great and, like every other MMO I’ve played, was fun for a couple months than I just got ungodly bored with it (Neocron was a cyberpunkish MMORPG/FPS set in one gigantic city). WOrth a looksee but I have a bias against MMOs just because of the huge amounts of grind that are inherent to the system.

hmm, wonder if there’s any way we could start a petition to MS about a single player 'run RPG? More importantly, I wonder, if we did such a thing, would it have any effect?

Here’s a document I created on a theoretical marketing of such a game.

Penumbra
PC/XBOX 360 Action-RPG
I: Introduction
Penumbra creates a memorable setting of cyberpunk action combined with classic RPG excitement. By using advanced game mechanics, this RPG will allow players to experience life as a commando, hacker, spy, martial artist, or spellcaster in a dystopian cyberpunk setting. In classic Shadowrun style, Penumbra offers limitless play by creating adventures for the player on the fly.
Players will receive missions from shadowy corporate operators, bribe company men for secret information and check online to find building plans and maps. Using contacts and friends, characters might avoid the whole mission by having the item obtained for them, open up new opportunities to sneak into the building, or arrange for a certain area to be guard-free. Players will purchase technology, such as shotgun microphones to listen in on private conversations, cameras to obtain evidence, “simple” grappling lines, glass cutters, lock-picks, and much more.
Once preparations are complete, our intrepid hero or heroine can sneak into by shooting a line over from an adjacent building, crawl up the sewer pipes, cut through the glass windows on the lobby, or simply smash everything that gets in his or her path. The character may have to steal secret prototypes, kidnap scientists, infiltrate networks or physical installations to place espionage bugs, plant incriminating material, hunt bounties, track down illegal enhancement clinics, find mystical components, and stop madmen from unleashing bio-weapons. The player also may choose to follow the ultimate adventure – a player-defined quest which starts the very game.

IIa: Expanded Overview: Setting the Stage
Penumbra places the player in a futuristic world of crime. The player’s character awakens in heap of trash. Bruised, battered, and now nonexistent as far as the government and corporations care, the player must still earn a living. As his or her efforts progress, the player may become wealthy and powerful. By focusing earned experience in several core area (including combat skills, stealth and social skills, computer and engineering skills, or magical skill and spells), he or she can grow from a struggling neophyte into a unique elite freelance agent.
As the character explores, they will find gangs composed of humans and human subspecies, larger criminal organizations, and awesomely huge multinational corporations capable of dealing with governments as equals. All three may become targets or employers of the character, through quasi-criminal outlets who hire people (i.e., the player) to do their dirty work. Early on, the player will be limited to small-time crimes, such as looting businesses operated by gangs or demanding protection money for a gang, beating up members of rivals, and smuggling contraband (such as guns, money, and drugs) over short distances.
The quest system itself doesn’t change as the player advances his or her character. Instead, as players advance, they will find hints and rumors which enable them to locate more quest-givers. Each quest-giver (officially known by the simple and non-incriminating term “Mr. Smith” in-game) works for a corporation, group of corporations, or a crime family. A few Mr. Smiths provide quests solely for themselves – these are fences, who work to obtain special illegal goods for their clients. Each quest-giver has a different set of targets (a picture, person, item, or piece of information), locations, and requirements (the target must be retrieved, destroyed, or escape). The difficulty of each quest depends on the location. A corporate office, for example, will be far more heavily guarded than a street-gang’s lair. What it lacks in personnel will be made up in cameras, security doors, and police response.
While committing crimes for profit rewards the character materially and with more points to build his her abilities, characters can also follow a series of clues about his or her personal quest. This quests lets the player discover the truth about why he or she was targeted. The player can then stop an insidious plot and save thousands of lives – or gain revenge. These quests differ little in the practical sense from other quests, except that the player usually receives rewards in kind, and these form an overarching plot.
Interactions with non-player characters work on two principles. The primary method allows players to select many dialogue choices from a numerated list, usually representing polite, ordinary, and aggressive responses and queries. Alternative dialogue choices exist, if the character obtains a keyword. The character may simply select a keyword from the keyword list to ask NPC’s about information concerning it.
Special keywords account for much of Penumbra’s special interactivity. Most NPC’s walking around have ordinary information only on everyday events; they would respond usefully to the keyword pollution or politics but not to black market guns. Yet, this might still lead the player in the direction of a useful contact in certain areas. On the other hand, a few special non-player characters, Fixers, live off of information. If the player needs a hint in the right direction, he or she can always check with such a character and receive a hint. Similarly, the keyword bribe opens a list of potential requests; some of these the character will surely refuse without very good cause.

IIIa: High Concept
Penumbra’s goal is to allow the player to really control their own destiny while interacting meaningfully with the world. Most games in the modern role-playing/open-world genre suffer from a lack of core design elegance. That is, they don’t build the bottom-up interactivity needed to make the player feel like a part of the world. This must become Job #1 and thoroughly in place before further design work. Elements include reasonable reactions from NPC’s and alterations in those reactions. Current systems remain overly-complicated, too reliant on specific rules, and are unreliable.
In Penumbra, most of the complex listings of conversation trees is replaced by a series of permanently built-in options. NPC reactions predict AI behavior strongly (and are combined with faction-based responses). Reactions are modified by an MMORPG-inspired reputation system built upon previous player actions. Building “faction friendliness” may be as simple as performing some missions for a relevant quest-giver, but succeeding at those missions is another matter. Different factions respond differently to the player’s actions. Corporations don’t have long memories: revenge doesn’t pay. Large criminal organizations are more bitter about longtime foes, while small ones may react brutally and swiftly.
Meanwhile, the game world sometimes forces the player’s hand. Quests may spawn without the player knowing it, and may target the player themselves. Enemies might hit the player’s home base, or kidnap a friendly NPC and hold him or her hostage. Moreover, each of these quests possesses several responses, from pleasing the aggressor group to taking them out permanently.
Last, but not least, the centerpiece of the game is the quest system. Numerous random quest elements are combined to spawn unique goals from a given quest-giver. The player might be hired to steal important secrets, kidnap a scientist, transport a secret item, sabotage a factory, or plant false data. The choice of target, goal, and challenges are built-in to the game.
Supporting the quest system is are overlapping worlds and randomized buildings. Both the Astral Plane and the Internet overlap the physical world. The Astral Plane is dangerous on its own, but can be used to scout and sometimes defeat magical enemies without engaging them physically. The network is even more valuable, because most doors, cameras, and security devices are controlled from there. Although some missions may allow a hacking-based character to simply use the Internet to grab his information, most valuable data is on unconnected computers.

IIIb: Background

IIIc: Plot
In Penumbra, the character will unravel a complex mystery surrounding the circumstances of his or her ejection from the “official” world of governments, corporations, and law. Resolving this allows the player to choose the kind of existence he or she wants for the main character. The character can accept his or her erased identity, use his or her newfound skills and abilities to return to a higher and greater life in the “official” world, or live on the edge of society.
Meanwhile, the people responsible remain committed to a much more important goal – saving thousands upon thousands of innocent lives. The main character accidentally became involved and was erased without malice (and the character can take revenge, or not).
The ultimate villain of the game is in fact several separate groups. Greedy executives gone rogue, government agents with a private agenda, and rabid eco-terrorists combine their strengths. The main character will have to take down all these groups to make it out alive, because none of them can tolerate someone who knows their secrets.
Cybernetic mercenaries and cold-hearted wizards will face the player. Throughout the game, the player will catch glimpses of the villain’s chief enforcer. This enforcer’s abilities, form, and sex will vary according to the player’s, so that the player ultimately fights a dark mirror of him- or her-self. This confrontation can take place in cyberspace or the real world.
IIId: Sample NPC’s
The player needn’t travel alone. NPC’s can join the player’s group with the proper inducements, which can include quests, certain player attributes, or simple cash payments. Each NPC has a specific (and not always tragic) back-story, and they gain skills along with the player.

NPC’s have needs of their own. For a cut of your earnings, they will make themselves available any time you like, or you can hire them for a set period. In the early game, that may be all the player can afford. Completing missions for them may earn you their services free of charge. Of course, insulting or angering with your allies may make them unhappy with you or even attack you outright! NPC’s can offer services or help outside of missions, too.

Jaws: An ugly brute wielding huge guns, ready to crush any foe. Jaws carries heavy weaponry and can pummel foes with mighty melee attacks. Jaws wishes to humiliate his former partners who sold him out, and always pays his debts. (Jaws is a tough combat specialist.)

Rubicante: A super-gunman, able to shoot the wings off a fly’s back at 50 paces. A surprisingly cultured gang-lord who quotes in medieval Latin in between nailing enemies between the eyes with revolvers, Rubicante needs a little breathing room for his “Demons”, a relatively small gang. (Another combat specialist, Rubcinante uses lighter weapons and can sneak effectively.)

Ruby: A young wrench-wench, just itching to tinker with gear. She’ll join the player freely… if the player can obtain a little unique technology of a less-than-legal nature. And who doesn’t need a grease-monkey to help out with the technical side? 9Ruby is handy for both technical skills and drone use.)

Gene: A street-brat empowered by the street-rat, a small but useful spirit. He is blessed with magical powers and needs to save his friends’ home. Although he needs some training and experience in using his powers, Gene has a lot of potential. (A stealth and magic-character)

Shadow: A bio-enhanced ninja, slaying the enemy with deadly swordsmanship. Not a talkative woman, Shadow enjoys impressive physical speed and unmatched melee abilities. If you help her retrieve some data about her own augmentations, she may assist you without a fee. (A stealth-based melee character.)

Cheshire: An enthusiastic hacker with a penchant for getting into trouble. Chesh is only available for a fee at the start, but purchasing her aid draws down rivals. She can join more permanently if the players deals with her little problem. (Cheshire is an NPC hacker, for players who don't want to take on this task themselves.)

Millions: A mysterious figure controlling the power of the spirits. Millions dresses like a Hollywood mogul and acts like God’s gift to humanity, but is unusually knowledgeable about magical wards and defences. Millions appears during the middle of the game, and needs the player’s assistance setting up a magical coven. (a dedicated magician.)

IIIe: Objective
Penumbra has no single goal. Like Morrowind or Oblivion, the player is free to ignore the main plot line at any time. However, there is a main quest. Advancing through it offers the player advancement, contacts, and introduces the player to new areas. While the player is free to take other quests and may need to complete many side-quests to become strong enough, the main quest should present a great deal of enjoyment and will hold the player’s interest.

Key focus and hard work must be made here. By suggesting the player needs to practice and play around, the main quest should present itself as a tantalizing mystery. The player can’t simply blow through it all at once, but is encouraged to adventure and enjoy the world. Fortunately, the villains have long-term plans. After the end of a main quest mission, the player may need to wait a while for the next mission to become available (as NPC’s do some investigation offscreen) or may need to personally track down leads. This puts some brakes on the player’s progress through the story but helps the PC feel like part of the larger whole. NPC’s will send the character messages when the next portion of the story arises – if the player has the ability to deal with it.

IIIe: Questflow
IIIf: Conversation
Conversations in Penumbra are advancing into the next level of RPG gameplay. By making multiple options available to characters, the game can pack a great deal of information into a very small space.

First, when conversation begins the player always has access to several options. He or she may choose to Attack the target, End the conversation (sometimes at the cost of making the target angry), Bargain if the target has any goods for sale, or ask about a Keyword. The listed keywords are drawn by matching keywords from two lists: the player’s known keywords, and the target’s applicable keywords. When the two match, the player has access to use it in that conversation.

Keywords can accomplish a great deal, particular special services. They will, however, almost always be specific to a given conversation and be helpful to the character’s goals. Most will given the player some background information or an extra conversation option. They will not, however, be absolutely required to get through the game. They simply help the player get into the flow of the game and learn more about the world. They can also clue in the player to locations or characters of interest.

Main conversations will take place through the traditional conversation tree screen. The player will select from a variety of conversation options and sentences which let him or her respond, make requests, and otherwise interact with the target.

Has anyone played the modern PC version of Shadowrun that came out a year or two ago? Is that anything like the 360 version? It requires Vista, so I can’t play it.

To contribute: I have played the Genesis and SNES versions of Shadowrun. I agree that the SNES version was more story driven but I think I like the Genesis version a little better. I really got into the hacking minigame after a while. I pulled out my Genesis a few months back, and I can’t even remember how to play it now!

the PC version was the same as the xbox version, it was released as an x360 and Games For Windows game. It’s pretty good if you love online shooters, definitely does some stuff differently, I just really wish (as stated previously) it’d had an offline story mode to it.

as for the genesis version. I don’t think I remember hacking well enough to describe but it was pretty straight forward. You had to use your different tools to attack the drones or whatnot. I’m sure you could pull a guide offa gamefaqs or somethin

Decking in the Genesis edition is done a lot like the original Shadowrun pnp game. You log in, and can select either a specific, known system, or randomly search for one.

Once you do, you will soon be confronted with IC, or basically computer guards and such. There are a few options now. You can leave, and maybe try another, easier angle (some systems are huge, sprawling maps that take a while to explore), but some areas are less guarded. You an start attacking with a utility like Attack or Slow. Or you can try to stealth your way in with Deception and Sleaze.

Attack just straightfowardly smashes the enemy. Slow messes with his abilities and renders him less dangerous. Deception makes it think you have the right passcodes (it will not bother you again this run). Sleaze just lets you get past the IC but you can’t affect the node it’s on, or do anything with the node. It’s handy for getting past nodes you don’t care about, like SPU’s.

Nodes are where it’s at. Different nodes can do different things. Datastores are really nice, because you can get in, get paydata, and sell it. Matrix runs frequently require you to do this (or the reverse, find a certain node and upload data). But you can also shut down the system or turn off alarms at the right nodes. If you’re in a building, searching local terminals might tell you where any objects or people you’re looking for are located.

Actually there’s a hack out there that allows you to play it on XP. Turns out it already has everything it needs to be compatible but they altered a few files to make it Vista only.

I’ve never played it though. Seemed pretty weak to me.

I’m another who would love to see another proper Shadowrun RPG. Make it first or third person real time, maybe base the combat on the Fallout 3 model with the magic system akin to the biotics in Mass Effect.

I remember wasting many an afternoon as a grubby little thirteen year old on the genesis version, though I never got that far in SNES one. I was never able to decipher exactly how the decking worked in it which made it difficult to progress. Maybe with all the all the fan faqs and whatnot out there now for older games I should look into picking it up again.

Perusing Wiki’s articles on the games I noticed there was evidently a Shadowrun game released exclusively for the Sega-CD as well bak in 1996, but it was only released in Japan. Did anyone play that? What was it like?

Jihi no I never got a chance to, though I’ve been considering downloading it. Having a bit of trouble getting into the SNES version right now, partially due to time restraints (damn work…)
Well it seems that the overwhelming opinion favors the Genesis version over the SNES version. This surprises me cause most of my friends preferred it the other way around. I personally always liked the openness of the Genesis version (and the decking stuff, of course) though one of my friends does bring up a good point in that the Genesis version limits your character (you have to choose between decker, samurai (fighter) and mage) whereas in the SNES you can get good at all 3

Smiling Bandit sorry I didn’t get around to reading your long post till now (damn kids all needing me to “teach” them and stuff. pshaw. I’ll learn them somethin good!)

I like a lot of your ideas, and that’s very much along the lines of what I was thinking. Something third person with a nice strategical element tossed in to the combat system, allowing you to control your minions… er, fellow shadowrunners. it’d also be cool if they allowed for an upgrade to your cyberdecks that allowed you to link 'em together so you can go into the net with a partner. Also I believe the faction system should be heavily stressed, allowing for the freedom to work for whoever you want really adds a lot to a game like this, but you’d have some sort of reputation statistic (based on level, what jobs you’ve completed and for whom you’ve completed them) that unlocks new jobs or jobs in new factions (eg you can’t work for the big boys until you’ve made a name for yourself amonst their underlings).

one question, where’d you get the name “Penumbra”? I realize it’s latin, but there’s a Penumbra game series that exists already. Maybe Umbra Cursito if you wanna keep with the latin? :wink:

The point about the versatility of the SNES version is certainly true, but from what I remember the Genesis version actually followed the rules of 2nd edition Shadowrun, (which was current at the time), much more closely. And it’s particularly strange since while the actual PNP RPG did have the broadly defined roles, (samurai, shaman, decker, etc…), it wasn’t a strictly class based system the way the Genesis conversion presented it. A character could, theoretically at least, have dabbled in all the different disciplines. In that way at least the SNES version was truer to the source.

Come to think of it I think the SNES game may have been based on the 1st edition, but I’m not sure. I was never that familiar with the original rules, only the second edition ones. At any rate in an updated videogame I’d certainly prefer to see the broad point based system of the SNES game over the class based system of the Genesis one.

While you did have to pick the Shaman to get magic, you could otherwise get anything with anyone in the Genesis game.

I dont’ believe it was actually based on anything at all. The system had some nods to Shadowrun, but the SNES game was its own beast. It had Hit Points, Magic Points, and the skills ratings seemed to mean something rather different.

Huh, you know you’re right. If I recall though the idea was that you couldn’t gain enough karma through normal playing to excel in everything though. You had to pick and choose specialties or else you wound up sucking at everything by the time you reached the endgame. Of course cyberware could make up for a lot of that but if you chose a shaman you wanted to stay away from augmentations anyway. There was a stat, it was called ‘spirit’ or something like that, that directly affected how powerful your magic was. It started out maxed but would gradually diminish as you shoved more technology in your body. And it affected spells used against you to. A magic fireball would do less damage but healing spells wouldn’t heal you as much either.

And of course when I said that the SNES version was truer to the source I meant the Genesis version. :smack:

Yeah, that wouldn’t be terribly surprising. The system seemed to be Shadowrun in name only.