Shagnasty and the Worst Anecdote in SDMB History

[AmbushBug]

In the old west, 1887 or previous, in a saloon probably in Montana, a “dude” entered and ordered coffee. This caused consternation to a cowpoke regular at the saloon; who would order coffee in this hard-driving west? This city sissy?

When challenged, the dude made an awkward pose with his fists. And then proceeded to knock the cowboy on his ass, for this citified sissy was a Harvard boxing champion by the name of Theodore Roosevelt.

–

I’ll be damned if I can find an internet cite for this, so I’ll just have to say I’m retelling it as I saw it on the History channel (Wild West Tech, episode “Saloons”, Feb 1), and it was probably taken from Roosevelt’s letters about his adventures so there’s no way to prove its veracity. I also checked Snopes, no luck

[Zoe]

(Aside to roger: Moi? Pretentious?)

What is the name of that movie that had James Stewart and Marlene Dietrich in a Western? She sang in the saloon and he was a kind of gawky soft-spoken guy that cleaned out the town. Anyway, I think he ordered milk at the bar.

[Zoe]

aurelian, your situation was different from what happened in the bar. She went where he wanted to go. She didn’t try to control what he had to drink. She chose what she wanted and he chose what he wanted. If you had stayed with the man you were dating, one of you would have been miserable every time you went out to eat.

Now if the guy wants to use that as a measure of how “sophisticated” she is, that’s his right. I just think it probably shows how shallow and controlling he is. Of course, there’s always the possibility that she might have been testing him to see how he reacts to people who don’t feel the need to conform to what other people think they should do or be. Personally, I would not want to date someone who thought I should drink something just because “The Vast Unseen THEY” said that I should.

Where is it written that milk is unacceptable in a bar, but coffee or club soda is okay? Wine is a fascinating subject, but not endlessly for the next couple of years.

roger, we have something in common. Milk. BTW, did your mum date Dick Whittington by any chance? (Or was it Whittingdon? Some other variation?)

[roger_thornhill]

@Zoe

(Aside to roger: Moi? Pretentious?)

You get both ends of the evolutionary scale here.

That’s not an Egyptian fertility symbol, by any chance?

[legion]

Maybe the “milk mustache” put him off?

[roger_thornhill]

@legion

Maybe the “milk mustache” put him off?

Nice one!

Zoe, his name was Eric. Honestly. I think he was also knighted. At least in mum’s later version of the story.

Whittington, Whittingdon - I’m not rising to the whoosh!

[Achren]

@Zoe

(Aside to roger: Moi? Pretentious?)

What is the name of that movie that had James Stewart and Marlene Dietrich in a Western? She sang in the saloon and he was a kind of gawky soft-spoken guy that cleaned out the town. Anyway, I think he ordered milk at the bar.

.
I think it’s Destry Rides Again

[Alessan]

@Zoe

aurelian, your situation was different from what happened in the bar. She went where he wanted to go.

See, that’s what bugs me about this story. I’ve been away from the singles scene for the past 8 years or so, but I remember always telling the girl about my plans for the night before we went out, just in case it wasn’t good for her. In the rare cases I forgot she would always ask where we we going. In the OPs tale, either he was a jerk for refusing to tell her where they were going, or she was an idiot for going to a place she wouldn’t enjoy. Ideally, there should have been a phone conversation that went something like this:

Him: “… so listen, we’ll meet at 7:30, OK? There’s this great bar I’m sure you’ll love by Union Square - good food, and the most interesting selection of wines in town.”

Her:"That sounds fine, but I have to tell you - I don’t really drink alcohol, so the place mght be a bit wasted on me. Sorry. I’d still love to go out - "

Him: “Hey, that’s cool. So let me think, now- you like sushi? Because I know this place in the East Village…”

@yBeayf

That would kick ass. I would love someday to go into a super-duper fancy $500 a head 3-star French restaurant and order some fucking Cheerios. It would even be worth being chased out of the restaurant by the chef wielding a cleaver.

Yo’d be surprised. If you’re enough of a VIP, a good enough restaurant would get you anything.

My wife was working as a pastries sous-chef at the Russian Tea Room when Gene Simmons (of KISS) came in for an after-theater snack, and ordered some strawberries with cream. Needless to say, there were no strawberries and cream on the menu, nor were there strawberries in any other dessert. In fact, they didn’t have any strawberries in stock. So my wife sent a runner out to find an open green-grocer, whipped toether some kick-ass cream, and ten minutes later, the 70’s star had his dessert. I’m not sure what they billed him, but he left a pretty good tip (none of which, of course, reached my wife).

So if you were famous, and ordered Cheerios, they’d go ahead and make you the best damn Cheerios in the world.

[lorene]

@Tengu

It still makes the person who makes the assumption - like Shagnasty and the man in this anecdote - utter idiots.

Or, in this case, udder idiots.

[The_Mad_Hermit]

They should have gone to the Korova milk bar. They put knives in it, making you ready for a night of ultra-violence.

[Rilchiam]

I once read a story wherein a well-traveled young woman from an old-money family ordered milk at a reception. This was regarded as highly sophisticated, since it gave the impression that she had tried everything else and found it wanting.

[don_t_ask]

If she is going out socially she should learn to vomit on demand. Then, when asked a question that will make you look silly if you get the answer wrong, you can quickly throwup all over yourself and save face. No-one will notice that she doesn’t order - honest.

[Mangetout]

@Tengu

Drinking beer or wine != sophisticated.

Drinking milk != unsophisticated.

Liking beer or wine != sophisticated.

Not liking beer or wine != unsophisticated.

How about another one:

attractive, 35 year old man, and a multi-millionaire that established his own dessert manufacturing company that suplies restaurants all over the U.S. != great catch.

It is actually possible for rich, attractive, successful businesspeople to be total and utter wankers. It is entirely possible that it was Suzie dodging the bullet in this tale.

[Rilchiam]

Yeah, good point, Mangetout. Funny that Shagnasty starts out the anecdote with Suzie’s unemployed status, even though it’s tangential, at best, to the story. Seems to give the impression that she was really at a job interview, not on a date. If she’d acted all sophisticated and stuff, she could have been Mrs. Gotbux. Whoop-the-fuck-ee.

[fortytwo]

@Miller

…
That’s what I’m pitting, here. Not the lush with the giant bank account.

I was sympathetic to your point of view right up until here.

Unless I’ve missed something in the anecdote from Shagnasty I don’t get this.
Is one glass of wine the epitome of lushness?
I feel guilty now about the two glasses of wine I had with my dinner last night.

[LibrarySpy]

@Abbie

Class comes from how you treat other people and how you conduct yourself in general. In this case, I’d rather hang with the milk drinker.

I agree with Abbie :eek: and Zoe. I’m uncomfortable whenever a stranger/date orders an alcoholic drink in front of me. But I don’t say, “Ah, you are such an asshole! You must be an alcoholic! You are trash! You are nothing! I’m getting up and leaving this table right this instant!” I think, “Hrmmmmm. Maybe their lifestyle is different than mine, and possibly incompatible. I shall observe for more data.”

I’m one of those people who likes sushi and spicy food and eats whatever is put on my plate at a guest’s house, so… I have no idea which side I’m on. I think I agree with the pitting, based on Tengu’s analysis. Miller was incoherent.

[Athena]

@Miller

Okay, I’m socially adapted enough to understand why the last three are inappropriate in a fancy restaurant. Can you fill me in on what’s wrong with drinking milk?

Nothing is wrong with drinking milk. However, much like chocolate milk, milkshakes, Yahoo!, Bubble-gum flavored soda, and Shirley Temples, milk is an odd thing for an adult to order at a fancy restaurant.

Let me ask you this: if you took a date to a nice, family-oriented restaurant, and she ordered off the children’s menu (“Oh! I really want the grilled cheese sandwich, applesauce, and chocolate milk!”) wouldn’t you think that was a bit odd?

@Miller

Teach her how to behave? What is she? A woman, or a beagle?

Yes, there are certain social and etiquette points that most people must learn in their lives in order to function in society. Early on we learn not to pick our noses in public; later on we learn that if we come to a fancy theater production late, we may not be allowed in the theater until intermission. I dunno about you, but I was taught most of these etiquette points by various people in my life.

@Miller

She doesn’t like wine. If that’s a “vast difference,” the guy isn’t a sophisticate; he’s a drunk.

No, that’s my point. I love wine (and I’m not a drunk.) One of things I look for in a mate is someone who also enjoys wine; it’s that important to me. Abbie Carmichael mentions that she would not date someone who drank alcohol. I’m the opposite - I’d have a hard time with someone who didn’t drink socially. I’d also have a hard time with an alcoholic.

@Miller

But you’re missing the point of Shagnasty’s anecdote. People have different tastes, and thats okay. Sometimes, two people’s tastes are not compatible. That’s okay, too. Except to Shagnasty. Read the “moral” to his story. If you don’t like the things Shagnasty says you’re supposed to like, you’re a simpleton who deserves to be looked down upon by people like him. That’s what I’m pitting, here. Not the lush with the giant bank account.

YOU read the “moral” into that story. I saw no moral there; I saw someone who is a bit picky about the kind of mate he wants, and acted upon that. Where did Shagnasty say that if you didn’t like something he likes that you should be looked down upon? Sounds to me like you’re reading a hell of a lot into that story that isn’t there.

[kidchameleon]

@Rilchiam

Yeah, good point, Mangetout. Funny that Shagnasty starts out the anecdote with Suzie’s unemployed status, even though it’s tangential, at best, to the story. Seems to give the impression that she was really at a job interview, not on a date. If she’d acted all sophisticated and stuff, she could have been Mrs. Gotbux. Whoop-the-fuck-ee.

Exactly. I don’t see how if she’d ‘sucked it up’ and drank some wine how she’d really be better off. Or him for that matter. Would she continue to ‘suck it up’ for 30 years? Would she stop drinking after the wedding and Mr Gotbux now realizes that the woman he married doesn’t like wine or beer, perhaps an important part of his life? Should she have whored herself out for free dinners? Where’s the ‘moral’ Shagnasty?

[Mangetout]

Isn’t it obvious?; you have to pretend to be someone other than yourself if you want a persistent shallow relationship with someone who you damn well ought to admire for reasons other than personal ones. Sheesh!

[mhendo]

@Athena

Let me ask you this: if you took a date to a nice, family-oriented restaurant, and she ordered off the children’s menu (“Oh! I really want the grilled cheese sandwich, applesauce, and chocolate milk!”) wouldn’t you think that was a bit odd?

Heh heh.

It’s funny how people’s sense of acceptable date behavior varies, and how it can also be rather paradoxical.

Because, on the one hand, i would think it was pretty funny and cute if she ordered off the kid’s menu.

On the other hand, i would never take a first date to a restaurant that has a kids’ menu, because the last thing i want when romance is in the offing is a “family-oriented” atmosphere.