It says you don’t care about your appearance. That’s your choice but don’t get mad if people perceive you as sloppy and treat you accordingly.
First of all, context is your friend. It’s clear that Shagnasty meant “unsophisticated.” But if you want to get anal and use dictionary definitions of words, then you’ll notice in Merriem-Webster online does not list either “stupid” or “mentally retarded” as synonyms.
Correction: That’s the only reading that proves your point as well as feeds your righteous indignation. If that’s the only way you can read it, then that’s the only way you want to read it.
Let’s do a quick review to put things in perspective:
She ordered an unconventional drink. He decided not to go on a second date.
He did not hit her.
He did not spit in her milk.
He did not pee on her car.
He did not try to get a law passed to prevent dairy products to be consumed in taverns.
He did not burn a cross on her lawn.
He went through with one date, and decided not to go on a second one. Apparently this makes him worse than Hitler.
To the defenders of the lady in question:
- Do you have any personal standards of what is appropriate and inappropriate?
- Do you think that your standards are universally shared?
- Are there any factors that would prevent you from pursuing a romantic relationship with someone?
I guess I don’t see what the big deal is. Guy wants a lady that can appreciate fine wine or at least wants someone that can enjoy an evening in an establishment that serves liquor. This lady wasn’t her. They don’t go out again. The end.
I don’t think it makes him all that bad, tdn, just very sure of what he wants.
However, I do think it’s a bit shallow, and a little silly.
I think this whole thread is silly. Over milk?!
Why is this even a question? If you order milk in a bar you look like a weenie. You can stand on your street corner screaming that all drinks are equal but it’s just not how the world sees it. Why do you think most guys feel the need to add “in a dirty glass” if they order it?
And besides maybe he was a militant vegan.
The milk example is very silly. However, I find your attitude of ‘I’ll do what I want, when i want’ without regard to how it might appear quite selfish. How is the casual observer to understand your motivations and differenciate a personal eccentricty from being totally out of your depth? And if you don’t care how you look, but I do, how well are we going to get along?
And like I said, that attitude is just shallow. There are plenty of people who don’t much care about their appearance, but would make great friends. There are also people who care a lot about their appearance that I wouldn’t want to be in the same zip code with (Paris Hilton, anyone?).
Hey now don’t lump me in with everyone else. I didn’t say do what you want, whenever you want. Right at this moment I only have a problem with lumping drinking milk in a bar with behaviors like picking your nose in public.
As for the rest of it, of course it depends on the situation…but, really? Did drinking milk in a bar embarrass him? Do you not think it’s shallow?
You dump me for drinking milk in a bar. Yet I have quite a refined palate, I like fine wines, fine food. I have class, elegance, and sophistication. Yet *you’ll never know * any of that since you dumped me for drinking milk in a bar once. I find that silly & immature.
And no one knows about the rest of her behavior that night. Was that the only sign of unsophistication? The whole thing seems very juvenile.
I would like to be with a guy who can bend the rules a bit sometimes without getting bent out of shape. Thankfully, I am.
How do you equate ordering a drink that a bar carries and is happy to serve you with “I’ll do what I want, when I want?” How can you twist a perfectly reasonable statement into something you might hear from a Wild Teen on Maury Povich?
Don’t we all have our silly, shallow things that might make or break a relationship? Like the person who said she couldn’t stand gum chewing - she didn’t say that it wasn’t silly, but she did say that to her, gum chewing is gross enough that she’d have a really hard time being around someone who chewed gum all the time.
My ex often had a hard time in formal social occasions. He was constantly doing little things that really embarrassed me. Nothing that was outright rude or obnoxious or anything like that, but things like he didn’t know when or who to tip, or assumed that someone was buying him a drink when it was obvious that it was a buy-your-own situation. Did I divorce him over that? No, but it was one of the things that makes me appreciate the present Mr. Athena a lot more. I never have to worry that he’s going to say something not quite right in front of my boss, or give the bellman a blank look when he’s waiting for a tip, or anything like that.
I never made the claim that ordering milk in a bar was anything other than odd. It’s not the end of the world, and it’s not necessarily a relationship breaker. But I do understand why her date may have decided that ordering milk in a bar was enough to tell him that she’s not the type of person he wants to date. A lot of people would consider even going to a bar a deal breaker for a date - nobody’s pitting them.
“Super Weenie Hut Jr.?!!??!!?”
It’s the “and treat you accordingly” that’s making me scratch my head, over here.
A friend of mine’s sister was in town and we were hitting it off and I was going to ask her out, until the conversation turned to the fact that she didn’t like The Simpsons. Seriously, I had no choice but to abort.
I agree with you.
I should clarify my post - when I said “ordered something inappropriate to the venue”, I meant “out of place” or “not traditionally associated” with the venue, not “wrong” or “improper”. I should have used clearer langauge.
I know your post wasn’t directed at me per se, but it did get me to reexamine the language I used.
Isn’t that a good thing? I mean, as long as it doesn’t make him inflexible (which he very well might be)?
As I think we’ve all agreed, we don’t know what other clues he may have been picking up as well. And we don’t know what sorts of values he puts on his own hobbies. Perhaps he is shallow, but maybe there’s more to the story that we don’t know.
A few posts back I mentioned a woman who liked to watch the WWF, and couldn’t understand someone watching a documentary. I never called her back. Now maybe that makes me shallow, rejecting someone over her TV choices. But the thing is, such choices were not the exception to an otherwise promising relationship, but rather defined in sharp contrast clues I had been picking up throughout the conversation. It was clear to me from word one of the conversation that I would not be able to stand spending much time with this person. The entire conversation was excruciating. It was the TV part that crystalized and summed up everything I had been feeling previously.
And I stand by my decision.
Agreed.
I’ve got eleven pages of context. Read them and then tell me Shagnasty isn’t calling this woman stupid.
No, it’s nothing like clear. For starters, he calls her an “unsophisticated simpleton.” If simpleton just means unsophisticated, he’s being a bit redundant, no?
It doesn’t?
Are you still going to try to argue that “simpleton” is anything other than an insult and an intimation of reduced intellect? Oh, and guess what word isn’t synonymous with simpleton? Here’s a clue: it starts with “u” and ends with “nsophisticated.”
I read it that way because that’s what the fucking word means.
Once again, I’m not pitting the man in the anecdote. I’m pitting the man who told the anecdote.
Naw, I could barely make it past 5 posts in that painful thread. So fine, I’ll take your word for it.
I stand corrected.
I’ll still argue that, depending on context, and the way I read it here (without having read the other thread), that it could be taken to mean unsophisticated, regardless of what a dictionary says. From the context handed to me, it’s not an unreasonable interpretation. But once again, Shagnasty would have to explain what he meant by it.
OK.
And if you had been out on a date with me, my goodness, how wrong you would be. Sample dialogue:
Frank: What’s your poison?
Me: Coke please.
Frank: No, your poison.
Me: Coke’s poisonous.
Frank: Aw, I was hoping to get you drunk.
Me: You don’t have to get me drunk, honey.
Yes, no and yes.
Not the end… Paraphrasing Shagnasty, it’s “Yhis lady wasn’t her. They don’t go out again. She’s a simpleton and an unsophisticated dolt. The end.”
The big deal is that her strange choice of beverage identifies her as a “simpleton,” according to Shagnasty. It’s just that … an odd choice of beverage. It doesn’t mean that.
You asked “Are there any factors that would prevent you from pursuing a romantic relationship with someone?” I said “Yes.” Of course there are. Thing is, I don’t think a woman is a worthless human being because we didn’t click, or we had some fundamental differences.
Think of it this way … in the original thread, picky eaters were called “pussies”, “whiners,” “child-like” and a variety of other insulting epithets, just because of their diet. Is a woman I have a date with a “skanky, diseased, slow-witted, closed-minded, child-like bitch who is undeserving of any human companionship from decent people” because she may have a deal-breaking trait? In my opinion, no.
EDIT: I said “The big deal is that her strange choice of beverage identifies her as a “simpleton,” according to Shagnasty. It’s just that … an odd choice of beverage. It doesn’t mean that.”
Strike the “It doesn’t mean that” - it was an unfinished thought.