She made me cheat on her....

In My Humble Opinion
61

[QUOTE=Phlosphr]

Is it a European or Brittish thing to treat women like shit? Or more specifically, treat AMERICAN women like shit?
[/QUOTE]

I used to work for a British firm in the U.S. The unspoken assumption of the male executives was that their secretaries would sleep with them - and that their secretaries would be good looking. It cost our security group and legal group a good deal of problems (I remember the VP of Security taking a hotel room key out of one of my coworkers/girlfriend’s hands during a corporate shindig).

62

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
I used to work for a British firm in the U.S. The unspoken assumption of the male executives was that their secretaries would sleep with them - and that their secretaries would be good looking. It cost our security group and legal group a good deal of problems (I remember the VP of Security taking a hotel room key out of one of my coworkers/girlfriend’s hands during a corporate shindig).
[/QUOTE]

This schmuck interviews his “girls” [read secretaries] and brags that he never asks them anything about what they can actually do - he just wants to gawk at them for a half hour…in the end chooses the most beautiful one. As a man I sometimes wonder if I am missing some “man” gene that says this kind of thing is funny or cool…I think it completely ridiculous!

63

[QUOTE=Priceguy]

Bullshit.
[/QUOTE]

Aren’t you single?

64

[QUOTE=Dragwyr]
I don’t want to interpret this the wrong way. I don’t think you are meaning this as, “Well, her looks are what drew him to her, so she should have kept them up so he would want to stay with her.” IMHO, I disagree with that. But if I’m interpreting what you are saying correctly, you are saying that she needs to make sure she does everything possible to make the marriage work. If that is what you are saying, then I agree with you.
[/quote]

It really depends on what he sees in her, AND vice versa…and those are not necessarily the exact same things that draw two people together. For one spouse the primary attraction could be physical beauty in the SO, and for the other spouse the primary attraction could be a great listener/empathizer…but whatever drew them together, fall in love, marry and have children should not be forgotten in the mix of married life…those same things (attractions) still apply years down the road. To abandon them or do an abrupt 180 in attitudes is also viewed as being unfaithful, IMHO. Certainly not on the same level as cheating on a spouse, but still seriously damaging to the relationship.

But thirty pounds overweight is still not equivalent or justifiable to cheat though.

Yep. I see that being an issue with this couple on both sides of the fense. It just seems that the husband is being more upfront about it, and in some instances, being an idiot by making it known to Philster and others inappropriately. That certainly isn’t helping any chances of a reconciliation.

65

The thing is, she may not be the brain-dead Real Housewives of Orange County type at all-but, there are generally big red flags early on in the relationship that the guy might treat you like that if and when he makes money. I just find it very, very difficult to believe that he treated her like an equal and respectful partner and then all of a sudden she gains weight and he does an about-face in terms of his ethics, mannerisms, respectfulness and behaviour. The thing is that with these types of men, you are essentially a doll (it doesn’t matter that she is not a braindead doll, to him she’s a doll) and as long as you toe the line in terms of how they want their doll to look, they’re pretty good to you. You know, you look good, you adore them appropriately etc… Part of the problem in figuring this stuff out is that these individuals (whether they are male or female) can be so damn charming that it generally masks the fact that one person is giving more emotionally.

Then bam, you hit that moment in time when you fall out of line and they start acting out, and yeah, it’s your fault.

Not to be prejudiced but it seems like every third doctor, lawyer or finance guy I meet is pretty much like this. And some of them can be the best co-workers and I consider them “friends” (well, friendly acquaintances) but hell yes, they treat their women badly but IMO they were semi-jerky to them even before they got the jobs and the beamers. Constantly and incessantly talking about other women, taking the girl for granted, acting like marrying them was a favour on the woman or death to their oh-so-exciting single lives, crossing boundaries blahblahblah. And over and over again I see the women in their lives

a) Excusing said behaviour as it occurs
b) Glossing over it and affirmatively COVERING it up to their friends and family (so in fact, it’s highly unlikely that their relationship was as perfect as they made it appear and I find it more likely that she has been unsatisfied for a while, hence the increasing bitchiness)

Honestly, I dated a guy like this once. Someone, who at some point in time, told me “you know, if we got married and you got raped by some psycho who broke into our house…I’d have to divorce you.” See, because to these types of individuals you aren’t really a human being-you’re basically a possession. So when your Sanyo mp3 player/wife/whatever breaks, you don’t think about your own actions, you blame the POS equipment you got stuck with.

Maybe it’s just the industry I work in but I find situations like what the O.P. describes to be a running cliche.

66

[QUOTE=msmith537]
Aren’t you single?
[/QUOTE]
Yes. Why?

67

[QUOTE=anu-la1979]
…
Maybe it’s just the industry I work in but I find situations like what the O.P. describes to be a running cliche.
[/QUOTE]

Maybe. Its also possible that his assholishness started with the money. Or that its being driven by guilt and trying to justify his own lack of self control with the cheating. Or he was a great guy, but this woman he is cheating with is Anne Bolyen reincarnate and he’s completely being led by his dick.

I don’t think inside any of these situations its actually a running cliche. Each one of them has players that are too complicated for that.

My ex cheated on me. Which led to me not trusting him. Which lead to me withholding sex. Which led to him cheating on me. Which became a vicious cycle that ended up with him dumping me. Was he an ass for cheating - yeah, but its more complicated than that sentence implies - it always is.

68

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
I used to work for a British firm in the U.S. The unspoken assumption of the male executives was that their secretaries would sleep with them - and that their secretaries would be good looking. It cost our security group and legal group a good deal of problems (I remember the VP of Security taking a hotel room key out of one of my coworkers/girlfriend’s hands during a corporate shindig).
[/QUOTE]
Well goodness. I work in a British firm in the UK, and have worked in a couple of them before, and stuff like that does not happen. Sure there must be a few affairs going on in any large organisation, but that form of chauvinism simply isn’t tolerated. It’s really, really quite the opposite here. Behaviour like that would have you out on your arse in a jiffy, and even hints of that sort of thing would be a disciplinary matter. Maybe it’s an expatriate thing?

69

Dangerosa, I thought you’ve said in the past that your ex-husband was kind of clear that he was one of these swinger-types and you just kind of ignored it or something. Also, did you ditch an investment banker/type A aggresso-money makershaker type? Because, approx 88% of the time your future is written in the pre-nup on those guys anyway (and if the guy isn’t at the point where he needs a pre-nup, your future is written on the way he looks over your head at coffee). This is what I’m talking about regarding the running cliche-unless you meet the standard of the meet-marry a superrich jerk/give up own career/gain weight/get cheated on, why are you bringing up your own life with radically different circumstances as an exception to the rule?

70

Sorry for the double-post but maybe this would be relevant Philosphr?

chances are it’s just an uncomplicated case of marrying a narcissistic jerk with poor impulse control

71

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
Maybe. Its also possible that his assholishness started with the money. Or that its being driven by guilt and trying to justify his own lack of self control with the cheating. Or he was a great guy, but this woman he is cheating with is Anne Bolyen reincarnate and he’s completely being led by his dick.

I don’t think inside any of these situations its actually a running cliche. Each one of them has players that are too complicated for that.

My ex cheated on me. Which led to me not trusting him. Which lead to me withholding sex. Which led to him cheating on me. Which became a vicious cycle that ended up with him dumping me. Was he an ass for cheating - yeah, but its more complicated than that sentence implies - it always is.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, Yes, and Definitely Yes. All excellent points.

And I still think we don’t have enough info to really find out how it really got to this point where the husband went all jerky during the dinner.

72

[QUOTE=Yeticus Rex]
Yes, Yes, and Definitely Yes. All excellent points.

And I still think we don’t have enough info to really find out how it really got to this point where the husband went all jerky during the dinner.
[/QUOTE]

He’s always been sort of different than is American counterparts. I think that is part of his allure. But - and there is always a ‘but’ - he appeared to have cood communicative skills in the begining, but those slowly but slow went away, and he became this sort of cool, under the pavement, sort of tycoon. If that makes any sense. All of a sudden they were in a 8k sqft house, 3 cars gated community and then kids, and then more work…AFTER he made it big, or big enough to get himself what he truly wanted out of the American Dream - money. This somehow changed them both and yet he remained silent years on family issues and it patterned out for him, meaning he got bored. We could all see it, he was taking trips to Australia and Argentina for “business”. Yes he may well have been doing business but he was gone for 6 weeks at a time.

We have all been friends for a long while, and we are certainly friends with other people who have had affairs and lived through it, but this couple is different, he’s a narcissist and someone who appears to have grown into that distinction.

73

[QUOTE=Phlosphr]

We have all been friends for a long while, and we are certainly friends with other people who have had affairs and lived through it, but this couple is different, he’s a narcissist and someone who appears to have grown into that distinction.
[/QUOTE]

Does he confide in you at all, or is it just his wife confiding with your wife?

74

[QUOTE=Yeticus Rex]
Does he confide in you at all, or is it just his wife confiding with your wife?
[/QUOTE]

Over the years it’s been bits and pieces from him, we are not the best of friends but we’ve gone out a couple times just the two of us. I can see a definite change over the last couple years…He’s a machine when it comes to work - I on the other hand am a layed back environmentalist-type, he and I do not always see eye to eye. When he makes lude remarks he looks at me as if to say, “Right??wasn’t she a hottie…did you see the size of her…?” I don’t know what to say, I’m just not as overly verbose about those kinds of things.

75

My ex husband - when I started dating him, was in engineering school - not the investment banker type - but when I started dating him the type who wanted two kids and a house in the 'burbs - and - I thought - monogamy. As it turned out, at least with me, he really wasn’t interested in the last. And he got progressively - less suburban - more counterculture.

But my next five boyfriends were an investment banker, three attorneys and a guy who shortly after I stopped dating him was promoted to Vice President at a national retailer. One who felt me out as a potential trophy wife. So I do know the type.

And Brainiac4 drives an Audi A6 and has stock options up the yango. Not really the type (collects far too many comic books and plays far too many video games), but its interesting to see outsiders perceptions.

I don’t have a pre-nup - but I actually think they are wonderful things - because they can lay out the expectations.

76

[QUOTE=jjimm]
Well goodness. I work in a British firm in the UK, and have worked in a couple of them before, and stuff like that does not happen. Sure there must be a few affairs going on in any large organisation, but that form of chauvinism simply isn’t tolerated. It’s really, really quite the opposite here. Behaviour like that would have you out on your arse in a jiffy, and even hints of that sort of thing would be a disciplinary matter. Maybe it’s an expatriate thing?
[/QUOTE]

It may have simply been the culture in this place - and it WAS twenty years ago now. I’ve been in American firms that were more and less tolerant of that sort of garbage.

77

[QUOTE=Priceguy]
Bullshit.
[/QUOTE]

Why is this bullshit? What business is it of yours what she weighs? What possible good do you think it could do to tell her she’s fat and that you’re not attracted to her anymore?

Do you think she doesn’t know about her weight problem? Out of all the thousands of women I have run into and talked with and fought with and what have you, and in conversations with guy friends about the thousands of women they’ve run into, I have yet to meet or hear about any woman who wasn’t aware about a weight problem. That’s not to say they didn’t let themselves go, but still, you can probably rest assured that they are aware of their thighs without you rubbing it in.

And anyway, isn’t there a saying out there somewhere about a mote and a beam and eyeballs? Are you an Adonis? Do you make total strangers clasp their heads and swoon with excitement? Even if they happen to be straight guys? Can a girl scrub her laundry on your abs? Maybe you should lead by example instead of criticizing you SO.

Someone mentioned health concerns earlier. OK, if you’re worried about her health, then that’s a valid concern to bring to her. Just don’t mention the weight. If she’s really that bad, she’s going to have other problems like high blood pressure and/or a tendency toward diabetes. Just say something like, “Honey, I’m worried about your blood pressure, and I think we should make an effort to exercise and watch what we eat” (Notice the word “we”? If she’s in it for the long haul, then so are you, sport!).

One more thing: Any guy who would end a relationship with a spouse he’s promised to stick with through better or for worse should probably ignore my advice above and just go ahead and get out of it. She probably deserves better.

78

[QUOTE=Linty Fresh]
One more thing: Any guy who would end a relationship with a spouse he’s promised to stick with through better or for worse should probably ignore my advice above and just go ahead and get out of it. She probably deserves better.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, should have specified "Any guy who would end a relationship with a spouse just because of her weight

79

[QUOTE=Linty Fresh]

Moreover, I don’t care what the circumstances are: Her weight is her business. You don’t go around making value judgements about your wife or your relationship based upon her weight, and if anyone does, they’re an asshole, especially if one of the reasons she’s up a few sizes is because she had a couple of his kids.

And one more thing. I’m not the brightest bulb hanging in the chandelier, but I do know this, guys: If you live to be a thousand, never, but never ever in your life make a negative comment about a woman’s weight to her face. Ever. I don’t care if she’s your wife, your sister, your mother, or your worst enemy holding a gun to your head. Her weight is off limits, now and forever, and if you’re married to a woman who’s gained weight, just suck it right the fuck up and keep your disrespectful trap shut about it. You. Do. Not. Comment. On. It. Just don’t do it.

[/QUOTE]

Saying “you’re getting fat” is not a good idea, but there are other options besides sucking it up. When she worries about it (which all do) you can say something like I’ll go on a diet with you, or I’ll go to the gym with you. You might say that you like the way she looks in a dress that is now a bit small. You can do the “it bothers me when you do this” bit. It goes the other way also, of course.

80

[QUOTE=Voyager]
Saying “you’re getting fat” is not a good idea, but there are other options besides sucking it up. When she worries about it (which all do) you can say something like I’ll go on a diet with you, or I’ll go to the gym with you. You might say that you like the way she looks in a dress that is now a bit small. You can do the “it bothers me when you do this” bit. It goes the other way also, of course.
[/QUOTE]

I’m with you on the first two examples. It’s just that I don’t see this as the man himself making the negative comment. In the first instance, it’s the woman making the comment and the guy’s just proposing a solution, and in the second instance, he’s giving her a compliment with a message. He doesn’t make a crack about her weight in either case. I’m not saying that we should ignore the problem entirely, but there are better ways to handle things then saying that she’s fat or that she’s unattractive. That’s cruel, and it just makes the problem worse.

And I do believe that if she doesn’t have a problem with the way she looks, we shouldn’t either.