Let’s make the analogy even more clear: would you begin a pitch with, “I am not an arsonist, but…” and expect the person you’re talking to actually think you’re not?
Do you think there’s a chance that you might find the goddamn point at some time in this conversation, or am I bashing my head against a brick wall?
Not everything that sounds like prejudice is prejudice. Got it?
Again I point out where you said
How can this be interpreted in any other way than everybody who warns of bigotry are bigots? If that’s not what you meant, I’m sorry I misunderstood. Please elaborate on what you meant, 'cause that’s all get from it.
I don’t think it’s possible, which is indeed a pain. I think the nesting used to be automatic, but an upgrade clobbered it (or they turned it off).
Well pardon my french, but back at ya, get the fuck over it. People are entitled to their opinion, it’s a free country, and besides that we have free will. You should have know that some people are going to talk about such a relationship before you started it.
I think a lot of what you two will experience has to do with the vibe you two create together. I’m married to a Japanese woman, but as a couple we have encountered very little racism. If people are staring, I don’t notice it.
Japan is very racist, and I’ve encountered a lot of pig-headed racism as an individual, but not as half of a couple.
Good luck to you.
GAH!
Granted, when someone prefaces a statement with, "I’m not prejudiced, but . . . " the alarm bells go off. They’re bound to go off.
However, I believe that some people say, "I’m not prejudiced, but . . . " when they are, shall we say, rather sheltered about race issue (or sexual preference issue, or whatever), and while not exactly bigoted, are uncomfortable and worried that they’re going to say something that sounds prejudiced. It’s their discomfort with the whole topic, their lack of familiarity with dealing with it, that makes them feel that they must say, "I’m not prejudiced . . . "
Now, I’m not saying that this happens frequently, but I think it happens. People just haven’t had to spend much time thinking about a certain issue. They aren’t flaming bigots, it’s simply not part of their realm. So they don’t know quite how to address the subject, and they truly don’t want to offend.
I know that my parents never expressed any real bigotry against black people. When my sister started dating one (and then married him) they did express concern. It was so out of my parents’ realm. They’d never even considered that their daughter would date a black man. However, they adjusted to her marriage well, and since my brother-in-law is a stand-up guy, all is well. But I do recall them giving her “the talk” a few times. Not that it turned out being really needed all that much, but they gave it to her nontheless.
Point all you want. I wrote what I wrote, and I have not tried to claim otherwise.
You could just read what I wrote. I have not said one fucking word that meant that warning someone of the bigotry of others means that the one who’s done the warning is himself/herself a bigot.
Look at what I wrote: "You do realize, don’t you, that when someone says, “I’m not prejudiced, but…” etc. Now read it again. Notice what I wrote. I’m talking about someone saying, “I’m not prejudiced, but…”. It’s those four words (five if you count “I’m” as two) “I’m not prejudiced, but”. It’s that disclaimer that I have a problem with, not any warning that may or may not be following.
Pain is right. I’m developing new respect for those people who post multi-level nested quotes.
Aeschines, thanks for the reply but I’m not sure I follow you here. You’re not saying we’re bringing this on ourselves are you?
Now that I think about it we were doing alot of kissing at said bar. It wasn’t carzy full on sex on the bar type kissing, but just a few here and there. Maybe THAT was pssing them off.
Ah, well, screw it! If I can’t make out with my GF in public, then the bigots have already won!! 
BTW, thanks for all the responses so far guys. I’m feeling much better now.
Look, my only point is that people making that disclaimer are not always prejudiced. Non-prejudiced people sometimes also make that statement.
Suppose there’s a group of people who think people with different eye colors shouldn’t date. These people may occasionally get violent towards those who date folks of other eye colors. Person A lives in an area with a bunch of eye-colorists, and tells his friend, Person B, that he is dating a girl of different eye color.
If B says “I’m not an eye-colorist, but you shouldn’t date that girl considering where you live…” is there any possibility that he’s actually telling the truth, that he personally doesn’t care about eye color, and is simply worried about his friend, justifiably or not? Or is impossible in your eyes that B is not also an eye-colorist, because he used those special “I’m not a <whatever> but…”?
If all you mean are that those folks are likely to be prejudiced too, you may be right. But your statement sounds like you think they are absolutely ALL bigots. I think this is wrong. If you didn’t really mean all, then we have no disagreement here.
It’s been mentioned earlier, but I would repeat, if you’re serious about this lady and the relationship, then you’ve got to figure out how to deal with this on a day to day basis in a non-stressful, non-confrontational sustainable way. Sad truth, there are a lot of people with issues around mixed relationships. You’ve got to learn to deal with it in a way that won’t negatively hurt your own relationship with what sounds to be a real winner.
I’ve been married to a Chinese woman for 11 years and deal with this in several cultures.
I’m tired and cranky, and I’m tired and cranky of being tired and cranky. So, let’s make that “It is my belief (backed by far too much personal experience) that if someone starts a statement with, ‘I’m not prejudiced, but…’ odds are quite good (but not absolutely certain) that they actually are prejudiced.”
Don’t know why I got so hung up on that. I’m actually almost certain that like someone said earlier in this thread (and I’m too lazy to look up) that it could quite well be people who are not prejudiced but scared of looking like they are that would say that sort of thing.
Y’know, this crow ain’t too bad with enough barbeque sauce.
Yup, this is why I don’t seek out black men to date (wouldn’t turn one down if “Mr. RIght” happened to show up as a black man, however, why borrow trouble…). Relationships are hard enough to deal with, without throwing in both families fighting the two people involved every step of the way.
I’m sorry this is happening. She sounds like a great girl. I hope you both have the strength and ability to fight your silly families, friends, and onlookers of both races (whose business it ISN’T anyway).
I’ve met several couples in my home town that consist of a black woman and a white man. They’re wonderful folks, and great couples. Stick to your guns and listen to your heart.
I want to clarify my earlier post - no Americans have hassled me about being married to a nonwhite woman. The only people who have ever made an issue of my race are my wife’s parents, who are Vietnamese immigrants. And they shut up about it a long time ago when they noticed I wasn’t paying any attention to them.
Like who?
“I ain’t a racialist - BUT…” is a classic phrase in the UK, usually followed by a diatribe against the culture or race being discussed.
Anyway, my parents, who have lived in Tennessee for the past 15 years, emailed me a while back to say “we went to a dinner party the other day, and there was a mixed couple there!!!” They were delighted to see such a thing, but clearly this was a Big Deal in the circles in which they move. And these are white people who have a black adopted daughter.
I’ve always thought that black man-white woman couples faced more hostility from black women. Unfortunately, there are many more employed, educated black women than black men in this country, so black women resent it when a white woman “steals” an eligible black bachelor. It may be that I’m just more sensitive to this because I’m a white woman who has occasionally dated black men.
Your GF sounds very strong and level-headed, SHAKES. It bites that either and both of you are catching any flak at all but it’s nobody else’s damned business in the first place.
What did even the ‘concerned’ commentors expect either of you to say? “Holy shit, he’s WHITE!/She’s BLACK! Glad you pointed that out!”
If anybody has a problem with that, even a mild one, it’s their problem, not yours. Period. It’s theirs to deal with–silently, and it reflects on them, not you.
Just because they’re crass enough to open their damned mouths doesn’t mean you must give brain-or-heart room to their spilled sewage.
Idiots abound, sometimes even among friends and family. I’ve always found simple, dead-flat declarative sentences very useful for them, especially when followed by a long stare heavy on eye contact. “X is personal and not open for discussion.” The merely rude and the openly hostile thrive on being validated. Defending yourself just feeds their completely mistaken belief they had the right to intrude in the first place. Deny it to them. It removes the leverage they wanted, and took for granted, in the first place. Leave 'em punching water.
[minor rant] It’s beside the point right now whether you and your GF really love each other, etc. That’d be great but it isn’t required, like only something deep and lasting would justify being together. You’re two people who respect, enjoy and are attracted to each other. The future might hold Big Things, might not, but don’t allow narrow cretins to cramp finding out for yourselves. [/end rant]
Veb
I’d ask them who Kate Bosworth should be dating, and watch them turn red as they realise their stupidity doesn’t account for bi-eye-sexuality.
Or “Oh, she’s not black; it’s a birthmark.”
On a serious note; I am in a study group that’s got black and white men and women. I (white woman) was told by one of the black women in the group, after commenting on the attractiveness of one of the black guys, that I should ‘fish in my own pond’ and stay out of ‘hers’. This was in front of everyone and all they did was laugh. Still, I think she was serious.
Good advice. (Great Dopername too, BTW!) I’d venture to say the bigotry would vary depending on where you are in Maryland. It’s quite a diverse state (in the sense that one county can be quite different from the next). I lived in Prince George’s County (think Bowie), which is pretty close to DC. I grew up in an upper-middle-class mostly black suburb and I got beat up (by the other kids in school) all the time for being white. I like to think it’s made me a more tolerant person because I can think back and remember how it feels to be on the receiving end of racial intolerance.
My parents have told me that I shouldn’t date women of other races because my professors might look down on me and give me worse grades because of it. :rolleyes:
I think African-American and Hispanic women are beautiful. I wish I could get one–unfortunately, a lot of people here seem to divide into racial cliques. Oh well.
As far as the ‘disclaimer’ debate goes, I can see someone saying “I’m not prejudiced, but…” if they’re talking to a stranger. (Although why they would be talking about such sensitive issues with a stranger is beyond me.) To speak like that to your family, though, just doesn’t make sense. They should be around you enough to know you are or aren’t a racist based on your everyday words and actions.
Great answer! I’ll have to remember that one.
I’d vote for the latter, not knowing you. Racism is alive and well. I myself have been a victim of it. I saw it when I was caught (by the police) smoking pot, too: the first thing the officers did upon arriving at the scene was to handcuff the two black people who were with me and pat them down for weapons. Do you think everyone is joking when they say that they’ve been victims of racism, or that they get pulled over all the time for being black? Do you really think they’re kidding? Just because it doesn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
How true!
I’m sure somebody, somewhere is a “victim of racism” right now. I’m equally sure that somebody, somewhere is being hypersensitive and needs to stop viewing every little bit of unfairness as racism. You can pull this “racism is everywhere, even if you don’t see it” crap with a lot of white liberals looking for reasons to hate themselves, but it ain’t gonna work with me. If America were as racist as Jesse Jackson says it is, I’d have a long assault and battery record from going after people who were hassling my wife and kid.