I dunno, if you wear a bacon suit around a pack of dogs, are you asking to be sniffed and or licked/chewed on? More seriously, this is why it’s almost impossible to have a rational conversation about this. In order to be honest, you have to acknowledge that she has some part to play in the interaction by her choice of clothing, makeup, hairstyle etc.
Unless you want to argue that women have no part in how men react, and that therefore the only reason they wear daisy duke shorts in fall is because they like having really cold legs, which for some odd reason they shaved. More to the point, the individual could be a attractive transsexual and quite probably would get some comments if the body shape is similar.
Men are visually stimulated to a sexual response. The actress and producers made a deliberate choice to activate that visual stimuli by wearing shape revealing clothing, applying makeup and doing her hair. The men are certainly responsible for their response to that, but she is also responsible for creating a scenario where that response was not simply likely, but probably inevitable if in public long enough (in this case over ten hours). She could have been walking around Naples, ITA or Cape Town SA and would have gotten some catcalls/hubbahubba type comments.
None of this means shes a bad person in any way, but it does mean that if you troll (as in fishing) for a response, it’s a bit disingenuous to pretend be all shocked and outraged when you get one.
I don’t disagree. She handled it far better than I would’ve.
I did in my post. As a fineable noise ordinance violation or something. I mean if you want this to actually stop, then you need to do more than throw up a youtube video. /shrug
No. She has no part to play if she’s not wearing anything within the realm of normal clothing associated with the culture and climate she’s in. No one has a “part to play” in any interaction that they don’t choose to be a part of. Walking down the street dressed in normal clothes, even shorts or skirts, isn’t “playing a part” in any interaction.
I’m saying that people who behave badly are the only ones responsible, and the only ones who “have a part” in the bad behavior.
It’s none of your (or anyone else’s) business why a woman chooses to wear shorts or not, or chooses to shave her legs or not.
Men are sentient beings who have the ability to choose how to behave.
Complete bullshit. She wore normal clothes, normal makeup, normal hairstyle, etc. She acted like a totally normal American woman.
More bullshit, akin to “if you don’t want to be raped, why did you wear that dress?”. The bad behavers are responsible, not a woman who chooses to walk down the street while dressing and acting normally.
That doesn’t justify or defend the behavior at all.
By this measure, nearly every woman in NYC between 10 and 60 is trolling if they dress normally and walk on the street. This is complete and utter bullshit. Walking down the street while dressed in normal clothing is not trolling/fishing for a response.
I’m sure you’re right. She’s the visible face of the thing. There are a lot of assholes out there. I mean, even if the whole thing was her idea, she doesn’t deserve to be threatened. Yeesh.
No, societies actually change and evolve. In the past, walking down certain streets while black might well result in racial slurs and insults cast your way. Nowadays, in most places, that is considered societally unacceptable.
Hopefully, in the future, catcalls like the ones on the video will be similarly unacceptable.
Plus, they were making a video to solicit money for their cause. Do you really think that if for some reason they filmed ten hours of people ignoring her while they went about their business, they would have published the video under the heading “Never Mind”?
This reminds me of a story of when I was studying for finals in December in a Starbucks. In the early afternoon, a woman walked in wearing Ugg boots, daisy duke shorts (and that’s being generous with their length) and a tight, short sleeve top that showed some cleavage. It was around the 30 degree range, and when she walked in, she got more than a few stares. She looked extremely out of place, both for the weather and the venue.
I remember my outspoken female friend making many comments to me about how inappropriate she was dressed for the weather. Jokingly, I said that maybe she’s comfortable dressing like that, and my friend replied that nobody is comfortable in those clothes.
A situation like that, she was obviously dressing to get attention. Do I feel like that gives me a right to make a pass at her or attempt to initiate conversation? Hell, no. But, if she doesn’t think that she would get more stares or smiles from her attire, than if she was dressed like the rest of the people in the Starbucks, that’s being intellectually dishonest.
For the record, I’m a gay guy who will hold doors for men and women, say general pleasantries when in an elevator (“Good morning / afternoon / etc.”), and smile or nod at people if we catch each other’s eyes in passing. I don’t consider any of this behavior to be harassment. I view it as being a polite part of society. If I see you walking purposefully, I’m not going to do anything to divert your attention or interrupt you, nor do I feel that any of my behavior requires a response in kind.
In response to Bricker’s point above, it’s definitely not universal. Outside of cities in Mexico, you greet everyone you meet. Literally. Walking down the road without greeting people coming in the opposite direction is a major faux pas.
Did I think all those men were hitting on me? Of course not. The cultural context was quite different. They greeted all the old women, little kids, and teenage boys as well. In New York or some other large city in the U.S., I’m not at all bothered by the occasional greeting. I’m a middle aged woman and my days of being harassed by random men are blessedly,over. But yeah, the presumably polite greetings used to blend into the “wanna suck my cock” greetings because of the context in which they occurred. Guys who insist on their right to greet any woman they feel like talking to? Go for it. You certainly have the right to be a jerk. Some of the men here insisting that women shouldn’t be bothered by it? Well, I’m pretty sure most of you don’t actually converse with any actual women so your understanding of pleasant social interaction is a bit suspect.
To the poster who insists that women walking down the sidewalk are performing for him because their t-shirts don’t hid the existence of their breasts: you’re a total dickhead.
I didn’t grow up in the South. I did grow up in a part of Texas that’s part of the Bible Belt, and the Bible Belt extends through the South.
And it’s quite common for Fundamentalist Baptists and Pentecostals to have very strict rules about how men and women (particularly strangers) interact. And while fundamentalists may not be a majority in lots of the Bible Belt, they’re hardly an insignificant part of the population.
So, I’m quite used to dealing with Christians of various stripes who have very strict rules about male-female interaction. The idea that this is limited to large cities just doesn’t fly.
ETA: Of course, I don’t agree with the way fundamentalists treat gender issues. My point is that it’s quite common to have places in the US where women don’t want to be talked to by strange men.
YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ATTEMPT TO ATTRACT THE ATTENTION OF A STRANGER IN PUBLIC EXCEPT FOR A LEGITIMATE REASON.
Yes, you can still give a stranger a brief smile/nod/greeting in passing IF you happen to catch each other’s eye or otherwise notice each other’s existence beforehand.
Yes, you can still demand a stranger’s attention in order to convey an important message like “Hey, watch out for that car!” or “Excuse me, you dropped your wallet”, etc.
No, your boner/sexual interest is NOT a legitimate reason for trying to initiate ANY form of communication or interaction with a passing stranger who’s not noticing you.
No matter what they look like.
No matter what they’re wearing.
No matter if you’re “just trying to be nice”.
IF THEY DON’T HAPPEN TO BE PAYING ATTENTION TO YOU, IT’S RUDE FOR YOU TO TRY TO GET THEIR ATTENTION JUST BECAUSE YOU’D LIKE SOME ATTENTION FROM THEM.
This should read “She has no part to play if she’s wearing anything within the realm of normal clothing associated with the culture and climate she’s in.”
Even in the most fundamentalist Baptist environment (at least, the most fundamentalist that isn’t called a “compound”) I have never heard of an objection to a gentleman passing a lady on the street and nodding, “Ma’am,” to her.
But I’ll see if I can find the student rules from some of the more conservative IFB colleges. They usually don’t post them online, so it might take some digging. Not sure if I’ll have time for it today. I’m starting a new job Monday, and I’ve got a lot of stuff to do. Plus it’s Halloween weekend, so I’ll probably be a bit inebriated for most of it.
I’ve said it up-thread and I’ll say it again. It is painfully easy to go through life interacting with women, meeting women, asking them out, etc etc, without doing what the men in this video are doing.
Your example might, in some circumstances, be acceptable behavior, but a) it is not what we witness in that video, and more importantly b) it is not a “chance encounter on the street.” If I go up to a person and intentionally interact with him/her, it is not chance. “Hey baby, what a crazy coincidence that I happened to come over here and say hi to you, while you were busy doing something that had nothing to do with me! Funny how Fate threw us together like this.”
Either you’re trolling because you’ve got a bug up your ass about feminists (those dirty whores who want everything both ways), or, if you honestly can’t see the difference between invited/appropriate interaction that most people manage every day of their lives and the kind of uninvited interaction that happens in the video, then your ability to think critically is called into question, found lacking, and thrown out back with the garbage.
Let’s approach this another way - when is it okay for someone to hit on a woman? [“hit on” as in make a pass at, try to start a relationship, a date, or some equivalent]
Bouncer, I’m glad iiandyiiii and Calatin saved me the trouble of having to rebuke your insane post. But I would like to ask you a question: Do you seriously think the woman in that video was dressing provocatively?
What is the appropriate dress for a young attractive woman? Is she allowed make up and to have her hair done?
I suppose at a bar, or a party, it’s appropriate to just approach a woman and try to talk to her. If she shows no interest, then it’s not appropriate to keep trying.
At work, it might be appropriate (depending on the specific circumstances) to ask an equally-ranked co-worker (not a supervisor or underling) if they’d like to have coffee/lunch or something like that. If they show no interest, it’s not appropriate to keep trying.
In college, it might be appropriate to ask someone out between classes, or while hanging out in the dorm. Again, if they show no interest, withdraw and don’t keep trying.
In some social or community group, like church, or a recreational softball team, it would be okay to ask someone out respectfully, and back off if they’re not interested.
If you have a neighbor in your building, it would be okay to ask them out respectfully once, when you’re to the “smile and acknowledge your neighbor when you pass by” phase. If they show no interest, back off.
There are probably some other circumstances where it would be okay.
On the street, or in public transportation, it’s generally not appropriate at all to hit on a stranger.