What is approximately the lethal range of a shotgun? Say, a twelve guage, or whatever it is that crazy people shoot church goers with (shudder). I realize that the answer depends on the round, but in general what’s the common measure? How safe were the people in the back of that church from gunfire? Or was anyone?
Thank god that that asshole walked past those kids in the hall. Jesus.
A slug 200yards+. Buckshot 100 yards, birdshot= very close, maybe 25 yards.
But I wouldn’t want to be even 200 yards away from a charge of buckshot, one shot could get me at that range if I was really unlucky.
I have been hit by bird shot from some 100 yards and it just stung.
75 yards is about the best “lethal range” for a shotgun, but depending on the load, choke, barrel config and the like, it varies. At 100 yards, the odds of getting hit by a pellet of 00 buckshot aimed at you is minute. Inside 50 yards, just about anything bigger than #6 shot can be dangerous, although the likelihood of anything lighter than buckshot killing you is also minute. The problem isn’t with the pellets aimed at you, it’s with the ones marked “To Whom It May Concern.”
I am looking at my handy dandy “Ammunition & Ballistics Info” playing cards (purchased BTW at Wal*Mart in Bedford, PA) and the nine of diamonds has the following info on the range of shotgun ammunition:
Is the same as in this table.
The formula used is discussed here.
Of course that is the maximum range.
There is really no safe down range distance unless you are auditioning for the Darwin Club.
That’s my home town and a few months ago I was a member of a group that held meetings there, but I never went to any of them so I don’t know how large the church is, but I suspect no one was safe. They said today he used a 12 gauge
[QUOTE=adirondack_mike]
There is really no safe down range distance unless you are auditioning for the Darwin Club.
[/QUOTE]
I was more interested in “didn’t die”, or at least unlikely to die, which isn’t the same as “safe”.
By slug, do you mean “bullet”? Or is this a shotgun load I’m unfamiliar with (and I’m pretty vague on shotguns, I admit). I thought you could only load a shotgun, with uh… “shot” ?
[QUOTE=squeegee]
I was more interested in “didn’t die”, or at least unlikely to die, which isn’t the same as “safe”.
By slug, do you mean “bullet”? Or is this a shotgun load I’m unfamiliar with (and I’m pretty vague on shotguns, I admit). I thought you could only load a shotgun, with uh… “shot” ?
[/QUOTE]
A slug is generally used by hunters in a shotgun for deer, and it has quite an impact within 100-200 yards, and after that, not so much. Slugs are really lethal at close range obviously, because you are basically trading away a pattern for a single slug. Whether or not the shotgun barrel you’re using is rifled or not makes a huge difference too. Rifled slug shots can carry an impact pretty far and with a lot of force.
[QUOTE=squeegee]
I was more interested in “didn’t die”, or at least unlikely to die, which isn’t the same as “safe”.
By slug, do you mean “bullet”? Or is this a shotgun load I’m unfamiliar with (and I’m pretty vague on shotguns, I admit). I thought you could only load a shotgun, with uh… “shot” ?
[/QUOTE]
Both types come in the familiar-looking shells that I’m sure you’re well aware of. What differs is what is located inside the shell. For shot, you’re looking at a number of round piece of metal, which is itself conveniently known as shot. For slugs, there will only be one of these inside a shell, and it is a hunk of metal that is roughly “bullet-shaped” (close enough for a hand-waving definition). That’s about as much as I know from a layman’s perspective.
Yeah, a rifled slug is pretty much like one huge bullet fired from a shotgun. Shotgun bores are smooth, so to improve accuracy, the slug itself has angled ribs on it, like in this picture. The ribs engage the bore and impart a spin to the projectile, similarly to how a rifle bullet engages the grooves in a rifled bore. They’re definitely powerful stoppers at considerable range compared to other shotgun loads, considering their tremendous size.
Birdshot, on the other hand, consists of a whole lot of really tiny pellets, that are often made of steel instead of lead. They disperse quickly and lose their velocity fairly rapidly too. At very close ranges (say, less than 10 yards) a load of birdshot would cause devastating injuries. Get much farther than that, though, and I could see a person surviving even a direct hit to the trunk. At long range, as DrDeth has already related, birdshot can barely injure you at all.
Okay, thanks to the posters above for the info on slugs in shotguns – ignorance fought. I have fired a shotgun before, but didn’t know there was anything but “shot” shells. I don’t own a shotgun, or I’d probably know more about the topic.
Wow, 50-75 yards is lethal! – I always pictured shotguns as more for close encounters – home protection, police riot weapon, that sort of thing. As well as for shooting at birds with lighter ammo – there was a quite a bit of commentary about smaller shotguns and bird loads after the whole Cheney thing that told me stuff I wasn’t aware before, which was interesting (if topically a little weird).
[QUOTE=Stealth Potato]
Birdshot, on the other hand, consists of a whole lot of really tiny pellets, that are often made of steel instead of lead.
[/QUOTE]
I’m guessing the steel-not-lead thing is because you’ll probably be eating that bird, and lead would be Bad. ?
Actually it’s more of an “introducing lead into the Cirle of Life” issue. Lead shot gets eaten by fish, which get eaten by raptors, which poisons their eggs, etc. Steel shot is an effort to reduce the lead contamination of the wilderness food cycle.
[QUOTE=squeegee]
Okay, thanks to the posters above for the info on slugs in shotguns – ignorance fought. I have fired a shotgun before, but didn’t know there was anything but “shot” shells. I don’t own a shotgun, or I’d probably know more about the topic.
Wow, 50-75 yards is lethal! – I always pictured shotguns as more for close encounters – home protection, police riot weapon, that sort of thing. As well as for shooting at birds with lighter ammo – there was a quite a bit of commentary about smaller shotguns and bird loads after the whole Cheney thing that told me stuff I wasn’t aware before, which was interesting (if topically a little weird).
[/QUOTE]
You’re right on about a shotgun being ideal for home defense. Higher caliber rifles, including the humble .22, have an ultimate range of a mile or more. A shotgun is an ideal home defense weapon because the shot dissipates quickly, as well as accuracy at short range - you only have to basically point in their general direction and the shot cone does the rest. Fire a shotgun (with other than slugs in it) at a normal solid-core door or wall, i.e. in a home defense situation where you’re shooting at someone in your house, and it’s unlikely for the shot you missed to go through the walls and especially unlikely to hurt someone next door, but will very handily mess up whoever has broken in. A pistol, or even more a high caliber rifle, will potentially go through the person, through the wall, into the next wall, and kill someone on the far side.
It’s also why they are the weapon of choice for riot police. You can fire rubber-, sandbag-, or even rock salt-loaded 12 gauge rounds, but even if you load for bear, you’ll knock down the first line of rioters but won’t kill granny in her flat down the street, which is kinda what you want if you’re a cop.
Think about this - Cheney shot his lawyer from about 30 yards away with light bird shot from a 12 gauge. Birdshot is designed to disperse in a ‘cone’ pattern and spread out to kill a bird in flight (or smash a clay pigeon) if you can catch the bird with part of that cone; the cone does mean that the shot is pretty far and wide apart, though. The Lawyer didn’t die, in spite of being shot basically in the face - I think he only caught 5 or 10 pieces of shot out of about 150 fired. It’s all about the type of shell as described above. I’d bet the nutjob in the church had buckshot in his gun, so his effective range for lethal damage was about 50 yards, which in a full medium-sized church is pretty much everybody but the choir and the minister.
[QUOTE=GomiBoy]
A shotgun is an ideal home defense weapon because the shot dissipates quickly, as well as accuracy at short range - you only have to basically point in their general direction and the shot cone does the rest.
[/QUOTE]
There is one thing I often wondered. It seems to me that in home defense situations the distances involved are often pretty short. Does the shot cone make a noticeable difference at a distance of e.g. five or ten meters?
No it doesn’t because it doesn’t move out that quickly. You’d have to be shooting something with a cone on the end for it to spread quickly. However, with a regular barrel (uniform length throughout) it would take a longer distance for the shot to dissipate.
[QUOTE=Stealth Potato]
Shotgun bores are smooth.
[/QUOTE]
Its also quite popular to use rifled or ‘slug’ barrels for shotguns, basically converting it to a rifle. Strangely, hunting regulations usually allow for it, even if rifles are explicitly not allowed.
You can also use saboted slugs in a rifle barrel, which uses a smaller projectile, and increases range even more.
[QUOTE=MrBelding]
No it doesn’t because it doesn’t move out that quickly. You’d have to be shooting something with a cone on the end for it to spread quickly. However, with a regular barrel (uniform length throughout) it would take a longer distance for the shot to dissipate.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, it does give you a couple extra inches of fudge factor, mind you- which could be helpful.
At “across the room range” the spread is a few inches, maybe a coffee-cup, maybe a saucer.
Don’t underestimate the penetration of buckshot at short range; I’ve unloaded 00 at thin steel plate (~<1/16") at about 7 yards and had a few penetrations.
If you’re expecting some drywall and sheet wood to stop buckshot, your neighbor’s in for a rude surprise.
[QUOTE=silenus]
Lead shot gets eaten by fish, which get eaten by raptors, which poisons their eggs, etc.
[/QUOTE]
I had heard that here in the “Duck Capitol of the World” :rolleyes: is was ducks eating lead shot.
It’s kinda everything eating lead shot. Steel shot rusts away and doesn’t poison the food chain.
As for the “Cone of Death” some people think a shotgun gives you, let it just be noted that as far as home defense distances go, you can regard the shotgun as being a rifle. In less than 10 feet, the shot is going to spread not at all. “Point in the general direction” is not an option. ID your target, aim for center of mass, and put it down.
