If the situation is that bad, you need to get the authorities involved. Even if the situation is that bad, you need to follow the chain of command for this stuff. If you don’t have it on official record (all the issues, bad parenting, bad environment for the kids, etc.), how do you think a judge would treat a “sue for custody” that literally came out of the blue, as far as he and the courts are concerned?
And why would your dad not want to get CPS involved? Sorry, but that’s the first thing you need to do and dad is being selfish for putting his preferences (or irrational bias against CPS) ahead of what actually needs to be done for the kids.
Possibly because getting The Law involved has been known in some cases to make family members hate each other (more, perhaps), and the situation worse?
What the kids need is a better situation. There might be several ways that could happen. Doesn’t anyone think some serious talk among all the adults could come before family members start treating each other as courtroom opponents? It can be hard to cross back over that threshold.
If that talk, about a voluntary change, has happened, I stand aside, but the OP didn’t mention any such thing.
In our school district, one must be a legal guardian to enroll a child in school.
Zsofia, I think this is a bad idea but it’s not because of your personal situation.
I think these kids would be tough for a family which is used to teenagers - suddenly becoming a single parent to a difficult teenager is something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.
It’s also a horrible idea for your parents to attempt it. I don’t think they’ll have the stamina to be able to put up with it.
If you think the situation is harmful to the children, involve the authorities who can place them in a foster home which is equipped for this kind of thing. I think your heart is in the right place but this isn’t a good idea.
Sorry this is happening. 
That’s me - but we lost the election months ago. 
Actually, his businesses are doing much better these days, although he still isn’t really able to pay himself. I have a good job with benefits, though, and my dad would be helping financially if I had one of these kids. (Paying for three kids is way easier than paying for them plus their parents, for one thing.) As I said earlier, though, this would be a huge strain on our relationship and my boyfriend has said he doesn’t think he could continue to live here if this became an issue. Not that we’d break up, but that he wouldn’t feel comfortable sharing a house with an unrelated minor - he doesn’t feel he can take on that kind of responsibility, which is fair enough.
What would happen, IMHO, is that the second Mark thought we wanted the kids he’d start fighting, because he wouldn’t want to not win. Nothing to do with love or what’s best for the children, of course. The course of “work something out with the parents where we take kids for, you know, the duration of the crisis” is an idea that my mom and I talked about at dinner tonight, actually - I think maybe they should explore taking the youngest one, most loathed by his parents, because I think he needs it most and it’s most likely they’d give him up. But that still would be an insanely huge burden on my parents, of course.
The whole situation is just awful. I mean, it’s been awful for fifteen years - scratch that, it’s been awful my whole life. But I know, I know, that it’s going to escalate and we’re going to be doing this again, and it just gets harder and harder on my dad. My dad’s first heart attack can be traced to stress from Mark. Strokes he had when I was in high school, same thing. Halfway through dinner he had to leave because they had some bullshit emergency over there (she “realized she didn’t have any gas”. Good thing the school bus stops a block away and the grocery store is two blocks, huh? My opinion did not win the day.)
But yeah, they are adequately fed and clothed, and they make it to school when the oldest one doesn’t fake sick (which is, you know, all the time, but I digress.) Their basic needs are met and they will not starve or freeze to death anytime soon. However, I can assure you that the oldest one will not amount to anything at all and if something isn’t done the youngest may not be able to function independently. And the middle one, of course, has all the burdens - it’s a good thing he can’t drive yet or he’d be responsible for everything in the house.
The whole thing is just unbearably sad. I have literally run out of anger, honestly. All I can muster is “depressed”.
Because suing for custody of their children wouldn’t do that either? :rolleyes:
The odds of a family law judge awarding you or your parents custody of the children where the parents are not incarcerated or physically abusing the kids is pretty much nil.
But, you know, that really isn’t the question. The question, which some people have been kind enough to weigh in on, is - given the opportunity, would that be something that I should do?
The question is “is it absolutely insane and cruel for me to even consider fighting to get one of these kids?”
The answer depends in part on how big a fight that would be, and what your odds of success are.
I can sympathize with your wanting to help, and I can actually envision two scenarios in which it might possibly work, and you could help one or more of the children. One would be where you move in with your mom and dad to care for one or more of the kids. Realistically, it’d probably be too much for either them alone or you alone. Your boyfriend could stay at your house, perhaps. Or if there was another family member that you haven’t mentioned that could take one or more of the children without it being too much of a burden for them, too. The parents would have to agree to all of it and legal guardianship willingly given over. It’s the “sue for custody” part of the thing that’s most not going to be feasible.
My thought was that the parents would still be doing the legal enrolling, but (if necessary) in a district other than the one they themselves reside in. Many systems, including Zsofia’s South Carolina, allow this under “open enrollment” policies.
You don’t have to get legal custody to start being a positive influence on the kids. I agree with the idea of trying to do stuff like take the kids school shopping or offering to let them stay with you on a temporary visit (maybe you can even get the dad to go along with it if you put it as if you’re doing him a favor by giving him a break from the kids even if that’s not really what you’re worried about). I think that would be better than trying to get custody, whcih might make the kids resent you for breaking up their family (even if it is a shitty family, it’s still their family).
Well, if DSS did get involved it’s not like they’d submit their actions to your dad for his approval. There would be nothing for him to “accept”. DSS would simply do their investigation and that would be that. If your parents were unwilling or not fit, they would place the kids in a foster home.
And in my experience (we live in the same state), DSS will absolutely take the kids from the home if the house is a wreck and covered in cat shit. I knew a family who had their child placed with a family member and the house wasn’t as bad as that.
[quote=“kathmandu, post:5, topic:551918”]
I don’t see anything on the face of what the OP has posted that would indicate that.
[QUOTE]
Both parents are big trouble, the two older kids are, and the youngest is only 12 or so and developmentally delayed and so definitely “at risk”.
That covers everyone, right?
Although our state has such a policy on the books, in our district it is practically unheard of to get the agreement of the school board. Perhaps Zsofia’s school district is more accomodating.
Horrible situation. Without the cooperation of the parents the courts would have to get involved. And in either case, you have to be able to do better for the kids than their parents. These kids are old enough that the course of their lives will not be easily changed. And if the courts are involved you may have no better chance than some strangers at becoming the custodian. Depending on the situation. The situations vary, but often there is an emphasis on keeping siblings together, so if you cannot care for all of the children, picking one may not be an option. It makes sense for you to feel sympathy for these kids, and want something better for them. But if I were you, I’d be looking carefully at the distasteful subject of your father’s limited lifetime, and what effect that will have on the family relationships. The most important thing you can do for these kids in the future is to make sure you maintain stability and can help if things get worse. And from your description, they can get much worse, and you don’t want your actions to contribute to that. It doesn’t sound insane or cruel, it just sounds unproductive. There are groups for families in this situation. That might be a source of information and resources for you. I have relatives too, and we’ve had to work our way through these situations. It’s never going to be easy no matter what you do.
I cannot recommend Al-Anon strongly enough for the OP and the grandparents. Dealing with a manipulative, abusive addict can lead even the strongest personalities into codependence, and Al-Anon can help to manage those toxic relationships. Alateen would help the kids.
Consultation with a family therapist would probably benefit the OP, too (and the grandparents, if they’ll go). This is a terribly complicated situation, and it cries out for professional advice.
The more time the kids spend with you, the more you will be able to influence their development, and the parents may actually appreciate not having them around so much and encourage it more.
Taking on these children would be just about the most wonderful thing you could do. But your comment about your boyfriend raises a huge red flag. The amount of extra work for you will be enormous, and it sounds like the children really need a positive male role model.
I do have considerable sympathy with your boyfriend: what if one of the children made an accusation of a sexual nature against him?
Unless you take some proactive steps, there won’t be an opportunity for you to do anything. Even if you do take some proactive steps, it seems unlikely that there will be an opportunity for your to involve yourself in the parenting of those kids. So, in my mind, the question is whether you should take some steps in an attempt to bust up that family.
If the husband is as bad as you say, the people to talk to are the police, not Family Services. If you get the husband charged with crimes or even imprisoned, then you might have an opportunity to help the kids.
The problem with calling in the Authorities is that once they show up they never go away and you lose control over the situation. Of course, there are situations where that is in the best interests of the children, but I consider it a last resort.
MY suggestion to the OP is to try to work it out in family first, if the OP feels that is possible. Mark-and-wife have problems, and seem to have some awareness of that fact. Instead of approaching this as YOU ARE TERRIBLE PARENTS WE WANT TO TAKE YOUR CHILDREN AWAY!!! there might be better cooperation if approached from a different angle. Say…
“Mark and Wife, you are having some serious problems in life right now. That’s too bad. Would it be helpful if the kid(s) came to stay with me (or the grandparents) for a few months while you work through some of this stuff? Would that help you and/or the kids out?”
if they say yes then you bring up the notion that you’ll need something in writing so you can authorize emergency medical care if, Og forbid, they kids get in an accident or something, and if they’re with you during the school year authority to sign things like permission slips for field trips as a temporary guardian (you’ll have to ask a lawyer about the details on that). This sounds a hell of a lot less scary that “give up your parental rights”.
A LOT of kids wind up in these in-family arrangements where they wind up living with aunt/uncle or grandparents without needing to get social services involved. It can work out really nice in situations where the kids need a more stable home life than the parents can provide, but the situation isn’t so dire that the legal authorities will remove custody.
Does it always work out? No, it doesn’t. If it doesn’t THEN you might consider calling social services.