Am I the only one eagerly awaiting msmith537’s input?
All other negatives aside, it’s been five years since your divorce, and the guy still hasn’t even made an attempt to see you face-to-face.
Your description reminds me of my loser ex-brother-in-law. You don’t happen to live about four hours away from Cincinnati, do you?
I’m just worried that social anxiety crippling enough to keep him from holding a job would also be enough to really cause problems in face-to-face interactions. (And I didn’t see - is he receiving any treatment/therapy for this, does he prefer just living with it, or…?) It’s a lot easier to interact with someone over the Internet or phone than it is when faced with them in person. Also, with him living at home you really can’t tell what behaviors might just be a factor of living in that environment, and what he might be like (and for better or worse) if he were able to get out on his own.
I suggest sticking with just friends and with a definite wait and see on anything more.
Well, this time the guy he’ll call a 40-year-old-parental-basement-dwelling-virgin really is all those things.
Me too.
The social anxiety, not having a job, living with mom - those things don’t really matter in a friendship, if there are other things you like about him.
They are probably going to matter a lot in a romantic relationship though, unless you’re similar to him in these ways.
I say meet him, but don’t start with the idea of dating until you’ve hung out with him in person for awhile.
Floaty, be very careful here. Being urgently and openly wanted can be very intoxicating, and might lead to your getting involved with this guy on impulse (mistaking that heady ego-blast of open need on his part for actual romantic interest on yours), and then ending up with a mess on your hands.
As many others here have pointed out, there are so many red flags here that it makes my head spin. I can just imagine myself in your place, in which case I would probably fall directly into the trap I described above, get over it very quickly, and end up by losing the friend I treasured. Desire and adoration are very heady stuff.
What Ferret Herder said. I’m more concerned about the debilitating social anxiety than anything else (although a lot of where he’s coming from is red flag inducing) because that’s not an easy hurdle to overcome, if at all. I suffer from mental health issues and I can honestly from an insider’s perspective that we’re hell to deal with. You can’t even begin to think of all the emotional rollercoaster trips that aspect can take you on. It’s daunting for someone who is used to it, let alone anyone who isn’t.
So in my estimation, I’d say continue to be friends because you could very simply end up in a world of hurt. Good luck either way though.
As someone who’s dealt with severe social anxiety, I can say we’re not nearly the freaks people want to make us out to be. Yes I lived with my parents for way longer than most people and caught all kinds of hell for it. Probably even missed out on a few relationships because of it. But the thing is, once I bought my own house and decked it out with the money I’d saved in rent all those years, now out of the blue when people come over they instantly see me as this great catch. My point is that the things you mentioned are temporary. Sure he’s a virgin now, but one day he won’t be (hopefully), and instantly it’s not an issue. I was in my late 20’s when I had my first kiss and she never even knew.
Sure it’s difficult at first dealing with a severly shy person, but all it takes is one person to give them a chance and really they can get over it. I do social things now that I never thought I’d be able to do when I was younger. The only thing that is important is if he is someone who makes you happy and feel good about yourself. I would heed the other’s advice on one front though, if you meet him and there’s just no chemistry, don’t string him along, and absolutely no pity sex!
If you do it, please let us know how it goes!
I agree that you should just go meet him. Go for lunch, not for a couple days, and go this month rather than dragging this out. Ask him to meet you halfway at some kitschy diner or something, or if you really want drive out to see him, but make it short, low-key, no-expectations. If it goes well then decide if you want to have lunch with him again. Repeat a few times, then revisit the dating question. And if he’s not to willing/able to meet you in person for casual cup of coffee, then I don’t think a relationship is possible, beyond what you have now.
And if you’ve been without sex for a while … why don’t you go online and find some guys to date? Guys who live in your town, and who are actively interested in dating women, live and in person. I mean, you can do both, date casually and still chat with this guy. You’re not in a relationship with him now.
Seriously, print out Diogenes’s post and tape it up next to your computer. Also, print this out:
I’m not even going to bother with the arguments that always accompany the conversation about whether one should get romantic with a close friend. I think we’ve got enough material with the chronically unemployable, 40 year old, agoraphobic virgin.
While I would most likely not date a 40 YO virgin, all of the other red flags are just hitting me over the head. Meet him, be friends with him, proceed with caution. Just too many things and look, you’re past your first love, and are most likely looking for something a bit more mature. Here he is, presumably still on his first love, or just experiencing it. You are at different stages in your life.
You know, I’ve changed my mind. We all have to start somewhere, right?
It’s not like you’ll get too attached, since you’re already attached, and it doesn’t matter if he’s a little bit clingy because he’s 4 hours away.
Go for it.
Whatever you do, don’t “go for it.”
I suspected as much, though I wasn’t thinking about sex as much as “romance.” I’ll bet it’s been a while since you’ve been involved with someone, and you’re not currently particularly interested in anyone you know in real life. So you’ve developed “feelings” for this guy in order to fill that void.
I’ve certainly done a similar thing. I HATE not having someone to crush on. I don’t care whether I’m in a relationship or not as long as my sexual needs are being fulfilled in some way. And I usually don’t even care if I obtain the object of my desire. But somehow, I need to have someone to be interested in. So I’ve had some pretty odd crushes in the past couple of years. No big deal because it’s just a crush and doesn’t have any real impact on my life–or the guy’s life.
But you’re thinking of actually attempting a relationship with this guy because you’re horny and maybe a little lonely for a man. It’s understandable that you might take a chance with someone under those circumstances. Trying it with this guy, however, is NOT a good idea. And you know that.
Another thing to consider–how is this going to affect your friend? How will he feel when he is rejected by you? Because he will be. You’ve said so. You’re dealing with a very emotionally vulnerable person here. You’re almost certainly going to hurt him very badly.
No. It’s not a good thing. It’s pathetic.
No, you’re not. I think I’ll PM him.
Please don’t. This thread is already sad enough as it is.
I’m surprised no one has quoted this xkcd in response.
About the virgin thing: I married a virgin and don’t think it turned out badly at all. But I was one too (we had similar ideas on sex and marriage), and yeah, he’d had a couple of long-term serious romantic relationships under his belt when we met, as had I. I would be extremely leery of someone who had no practice… not just in romantic relationships (I could imagine someone who felt he just wasn’t ready yet, or was too busy with other things, or…), but it sounds like from your other posts he doesn’t even have that much practice in interpersonal relationships in general.
Meet him? Yes.
Date him? Ask for advice in a new thread after you’ve met him in a safe, public place.
Wow, so many thoughtful replies. Thank you.
I really am torn about it.
I guess, if I’m 100% honest, I do know that there can be no long term relationship with him. He really is an incredibly nice person, he’s been nicer to me than anybody else in my life. I hate that he cant’ experience a loving, long term relationship. My feelings for him are a mix of love and pity, I think. He deserves so much more.
I want to bring some happiness into his life, some physical affection, a hug. I think he is someone I really could come to genuinely love and for the first time I realize that I could also be the one who gets hurt.
He doesn’t push any sort of meeting because he doesn’t like to ask for things in case the person says ‘no’. So everything is up to me. It’s not as easy as meeting in the middle for lunch, the pacific ocean is in the middle. He lives two boat rides away so one of us would have to make the full, 4 hour trip, one way. So my suggestion is that we meet in Vancouver, stay at a hotel (two rooms) for the weekend and go do some touristy things. I thought we’d go in November so that we could go see the movie 2012 together.
I’m still not sure what I should/will do. But I sure do appreciate the replies and I’ve carefully read each one.
With all of those who seem to reel back in horror at the notion of being a virgin until marriage, it is a perfectly legitimate lifestyle choice and does not automatically make someone into a religious fanatic or a pathetic loser. I am 34, and a virgin, by choice. I have had long-term relationships with like-minded women. I resent the “virgin = pathetic loser” mentality because it implies that everyone is a raging hornball and that those who make this lifestyle choice are somehow surpressing something. For me, it’s just an awareness of the reality that even the most dreamy, romantic, wonderful relationship may fail. I was stunned that my last couple of relationships ended, because I thought each was going to be “The One,” but I’m glad we didn’t have sex added to the mix when it came time to bask in the Why when the relationship ended. Breaking up is hard enough as it is. In much the same way, I’m glad those relationships didn’t involve other shared experiences, such as long vacations together, first mountain climbed together, marriage, raising kids, buying a first house together, etc. Yeah, sex is THAT important, but also not important enough that the whole relationship pivots on it.
Yes, I think the common reaction among dopers so far, regardless of their opinions on the virginity matter, is that this man seems to have had very limited experience with human interaction, outside of his family circle. He may be, and probably is, a great person, but you could find yourself frustrated with his fear of, and/or ineptitude when it comes to, every day social interactions. Frankly, I’m a curious enough person that, if I were you, I’d meet him, just to observe. But I tend to find humor in socially awkward situations. Even in my own life, I have stammered through embarrassing social situations that now seem funny to me. Even if you remain “just friends,” you could help him overcome his anxiety. I say meet him and see, but don’t let him or you call it a “date,” that adds pressure that could seriously put a damper on his ability to express himself.
I was an extremely shy person in my late teens, when I started college. Being in situations which neccessitated social interaction were agonizing to me, but also among my most valued experiences to this day. I think my anxiety came from feeling harshly judged by outgoingly cruel people, and you could be the friend that helps him burst out of that shell. Take him to a karaoke bar, and teach him to laugh at himself and enjoy it.
Then my answer is officially, 100% NO, you shouldn’t date this guy. Would you want someone to be with you for pity? Because they didn’t think you’d get love any other way? Someone who would get with you because they think they could “grow to love you”?
I wouldn’t.
That’s irrelevant. He’s a grown man; as long as you’re honest with him, it’s up to him to decide what he deserves. He’s 40 years old, so deserving or not, there probably isn’t much more available to him, and I bet that given the choice he’d take “love and pity” over “fuckin’ lonely”.
On the other hand, if you do meet him, get separate hotel rooms.
Incidentally, I’m getting the impression that you’ve more or less made up your mind to meet him already. True?
ETA: Charger, I think you might be projecting a bit here. Nobody is calling him a loser because he’s a virgin. He’s getting called a loser because of all the other stuff the OP said about him.