While I agree with the sentiment, this is equivocation. It’s also false since atheism is usually a lack of belief rather than a belief in the lack. My favourite analogies are “bald as a hair colour” or “not collecting stamps as a hobby”.
And why do you think that? If you brought up the fact you don’t believe in god, knowing full well many around you may be offended because they are theists, certainly you would be the one being provocative, not those around you. Unless of course you think Atheism is somehow the default and that anyone who thinks otherwise is somehow trying to ruin you.
How in the world, in that analogy, is **Eve **being the provocative one? She’s sitting and reading a book.
Nobody worries about offending ME by mentioning the fact that they’re theists. Thing is, it’s easy to drop references to your religion in conversation if you have one.
“What are you doing Saturday?” “Oh, I have a booth at the church rummage sale that day.”
“Our church is holding an Easter Egg Hunt on Thursday, would you like to bring your kids?”
“I was talking to the pastor the other day, and he told me…”
None of those are terribly provocative or in yer face, they’re just conversations about something that’s part of your life. But if there’s an easy way to express your non-involvement in any religious rituals, without being accused of being provocative, I have yet to think of it.
“What are you doing Sunday?” “I thought I’d clean the bathroom and then not go to church, and after that I’ll mow the lawn.”
For some reason it’s provocative to mention that religion is NOT part of your life, even when it’s not provocative to casually reference that it is.
Really depends on your preference for how much discussion you want to go through, how much you want to be left alone, if and in what situations you hope to introduce others to your POV etc.
Just use guidelines of basic human decency- don’t be super-loud, dropping it into conversation at every opportunity like the kind of vegetarian who chews other people out for eating a cold-cut sandwich at the office. Don’t purposely avoid the subject all the time (much or most of the thime is fine if you’re the type who really, really doesn’t like controversy), don’t be too polite to give someone who’s being clearly and immediately harmed by something you disagree with (e.g. your adult daughter/son says “I have to give all my money to the church or I’m going to Hell!”, someone close to you refuses to go to a doctor because the church will supposedly heal them etc) advice. Anything between those two extremes should be fine.
No, no, no, what you should have said is “Oh I will be performing my annual atheistic sacrifice of a chocolate bunny.”:D;)
Well, to be fair, I *am *pretty provocative when I am sitting and reading, especially when I cross my long, shapely legs.
In general you can say whatever you like, however loudly you like. However, just be aware that this might not have the best effect if you do it to someone you would like to date, to someone you want to ask a favor of, or to someone you want to get a job from. So I think the answer to this question is more a matter of knowing about social cues than about atheism per se.
That is my point, in that analogy she would not be provocative at all, but in the scenario of openly declaring your atheism in mixed company, she may be. Which is why I thought it was strange to make an analogy implying the opposite.
From the OP it sounds as though one of the problems is communicating this to people you really care about, not so much a thing you want to randomly shout from the rooftops.
I do recognise that (though I’m lucky to currently live in Europe, where I know no more than a handful of Christians). When someone you care about believes in something totally silly, there is something painful about it. You don’t want someone you love to be partially crazy/gullible/silly.
So how do you go about mentioning it, hopefully making them think? I’m not sure myself, I don’t think I’ve ever been very successful at accomplishing anything. If it comes up I will usually try to just pose challenging questions, without making any grand statements.
I remember the thread where you were asking about the date who wanted to see her sister again. Of course, in most situations it would be insensitive to crush that dream. But there might be a more in-depth, personal conversation where it would be appropriate to mention that you don’t feel the same. Then you could (if that applies) explain how you find comfort in the beauty of the complexity of life and the knowledge that it ends, the circle of life, we’re all made of stardust 'n all that. There is comfort and beauty in that line of thought, and that’s not crazy and irrational (ok, the stardust part is somewhat embellished, but you know what I mean).
That’s just my 2ct, but like I said, I don’t think I’ve won over any souls to the side that don’t believe in souls. Despite my flatmates’ favourite game being “make-gracer-open-the-door-when-it’s-jehova’s-witnesses”.
I think it’s good if people are vocal about things they care deeply about. If nothing else, it makes the assholes (in any and every category) easier to spot and hopefully avoid. Freedom Of Speech is a double-edged weapon.
I am a Christian, but I’d hope that this advice would be helpful to anyone who wants to change people’s minds about anything, whether in religion or politics or something else. If you approach somebody with an obvious attitude that they have not been sufficiently educated and that you’re going to educate them, you’re setting yourself up for failure. The reason for this should be clear if you try to imagine yourself in the other person’s shoes. If somebody else came up to you and told you (directly or by implication) that a major part of your worldview was utterly ignorant and that they were going to educated you out of it, how would that make you feel?
Instead, consider approaching someone who disagrees with you by first acknowledging that disagreement exists, then suggesting a conversation in which each person would have a chance to explain what he or she thinks on the topic.
Besides the advice given by others, you might consider moving to Seattle or another location where atheism is the norm.
And how did you get that from the statistics given?
My advice is for Christians and non alike:
If asked, be open about it without being a dick. “Yeah, I’m a Christian, I believe blah blah and blah and if you want to know more that’s cool, if not, no problem.” Or … “yeah I don’t believe in any kind of deity because of blah blah and blah, and I’m totally not interested in finding religion, but if you’re into God then that’s cool for you.”
See? Not hard. Most people are capable of this - if one isn’t, they should abstain altogether. “Sorry, but I have a really bad track record when it comes to religious discussions because I get too hype, so I’ve found it’s just best that I keep my views to myself.”
Your desire to lead others to the truth reminds me of this guy I know, though. Grew up in Nazareth …
I will matter-of-factly discuss my atheism if it comes up but I try not to be preachy or convert theists because I hate when they do that to me.
I did change my religious beliefs on Facebook to an attributed quote from Stephen Hawking
One person unfriended me, to my amusement. I didn’t miss her glurgy religious updates from my newsfeed.
If asked, I’ll say that I’m an atheist.
I will openly tell anyone witnessing that I’m comfortable in my beliefs and have no interest in arguing about theirs. Other than that, I don’t think my beliefs are any more important to anyone than theirs are to me.
Mixed company? You mean both men AND women? Heavens.
I went back and read the post you’re apparently referring to, and my point stands: if it’s somehow provocative to mention that you’re not religious after being ASKED what you’re doing for a RELIGIOUS holiday, I don’t know how you think atheists are ever supposed to mention that they’re atheists without considering them provocative. Or is that your point; that atheists, simply by daring to be atheist around Christian people, are provocative? Sit down and be quiet you filthy heathen so we don’t have to hear about your blasphemous nature unless we specifically ask you a direct question about it?
Again, if someone can mention their religion in a casual conversation and not have to worry about offending an atheist, why shouldn’t an atheist be able to mention that they’re not going to church and not worry about offending a Christian?
“Would you like a Creme Egg?” “No thanks, I don’t like chocolate.” Not provocative.
“What are you doing this Sunday?” “It’s Easter, I’ll be in church all morning.” Not provocative.
“How are you celebrating Easter?” “I’m not, I don’t follow religious holidays.” Not provocative, dammit.
I didn’t. I know off the top of my head that Seattle is the least religious city in the nation. If he wants second options, he’ll need to do more research on his own. That would probably start by narrowing down to a particular state, ergo a picture of states.
Thanks for the advice everyone.
To the OP. With all due respect, I strongly advise against one on one debates or discussions with people if your aim is to explain why their religious faith is nonsense. It’s just going to be a futile exercise, on that will likely leave you more frustrated than you already are. And you delve into the nature of some of their beliefs, you may find yourself losing ALL respect for them. So maybe a little but of ignorance is a little bit more blissful.
The exception to this might be someone you care deeply about. The risk there is that you risk destroying the relationship you have, as their beliefs might end up being deal breakers for you or vice versa.
If you feel the need to be vocal or take action, I suggest that you do it in the political arena. Be vocal with your elected representatives and with political candidates about separating religious faith and government. Find out which idiots are voting for creationism in the school system, and vote against their candidates for the school board. Stuff like that, though I would still advise you against engaging them directly on the merits of their faith.