Sorry i was meaning about the body of websites in English I notice they use often your kind of words (ramazan, etc). Not specifically that website, I was not thinking of it specifically when I wrote that.
indeed.
Weirdo muslims doing weirdo things in the sub-standard not western way…
I’ll go easy on them. Go ahead and eat or drink if you guys need to.
Maybe we should give those Christians a break too and not make them go to church every Sunday. Wouldn’t Christmas and Easter be good enough?
? This is new to me. Given how doctors always stress how important it is to regularly drink water during hot days to Keep from causing Problems, I assumed they knew what they were talking about.
Do you mean “There have been studies done that Show Ramadan as done currently (without drinking any water even during hot summer while still working) is not dangerous for the kidneys and the Body” or do you mean “There has been no study done, so we don’t know how harmful for the Body it is?”
That was not my Intention, and I said already that it was anecdote. I’m not a doctor, and I don’t know if studies have been done.
Didn’t you agree upthread that children and pregnant women are exempt, yet many (due to peer pressure or Holding with Tradition) still fast? So it’s not about “Weirdo Muslims” but more “People following a Tradition that has become removed from its theological roots”
I do wonder how the description of proper fasting was originally phrased, that is, what the words meant in context back in the 6th century? Did “no water” mean “not one drop”?
And there is a difference if by obeying fasting everybody stays resting in the shade of their tent, or if they do hard work (including Manual work in hot sun all day) because they are in a not-Major muslim Country.
I don’t find it impossible, because surgeons are humans. Humans are not machines that follow logic, they have conflicting views and are able to hold different attitudes on different subjects.
Given that People from western traditions, including sects with extreme views, can become surgeons and doctors*, it’s quite possible for a surgeon to go through all his Training about surgery, while simply following Tradition “as everybody in my Family/ circle does it” or his Imam on how to fast, and not notice his own impairment.
I mean, do you know the statistics on how many heart surgeons smoke - despite seeing the consequences before their eyes every day. But because they are under a lot of stress, some of them smoke.
That’s because only the (current) Interpretation of Muslim fasting is “no water at all”, along with the Tradition of big meals in the evening and in the morning (which can lead to Problems with drowsiness from trying to Digest it).
I’ve never heard of Catholics fasting on Friday to not drink anything at all. The Tradition is “no red meat on Fridays” (even if most People don’t know why there’s so much fish and sweet dishes in the Cafeteria).
I don’t know how many followed the pre-Vaticanum II rule about “not eating anything on Friday before Mass” to receive the Eucharist on an empty stomach, but I haven’t heard of it in the last 40 years.
Depends on how it’s done - spring and autumn “cleansing” done with no solid Food, but lots of fruit and veggie Juices for max. 1 week is regularly recommended here as “if it doesn’t help, it won’t harm either”.
They do. You do not understand them.
No I mean there is no science for the baseless idea going without water for some hours damages the kidneys for any healthy person.
Just what I wrote.
For the question of SCIENCE and what it says even about persons with a renal disease here is actual information, not rumor and unscientific speculations.
Of course persons with disease should be careful.
If only the fasting was so dangerous to the kidneys, you would see clear statistical elevantion of the kidney disease in the islamic countries against other comparisons.
But this is not the case. The human body is not so delicate so other reasons to be islamic practice phobic need to be found.
People with diseases don’t fast. End of discussion. Like people who are diabetics. Or those with kidney problems. Or those on blood pressure medication. If you have a kidney disease, you have far bigger problems than not being able to fast in Ramazan.
Ramira, let it go, constanze wishes to prove Muslims are dumb hicks, arguing with her is pointless.
If you have evidence, then it’s helpful to Show it, so I can learn. But there’s quite a difference (in science) between “we have done studies and found no evidence for negative outcomes” and “we don’t have conclusive studies”
We would see this if:
fasting in Major-islamic countries is done just like in minority-islamic countries - which often it is not (most Business shut down in islamic countries, so resting vs. normal work periods in western countries)
anybody compiled and compared the statistics of kidney disease in islamic countries vs. non-islamic countries - while factoring other differences that affect diseases (like the state of the health Service System).
Not all People who ask questions are islamophobic. Some are asking questions in order to learn.
Jumping down their throat simply for asking (while admitting that they don’t know enough yet) doesn’t help them learn. It makes them go elsewhere to get answers.
Do you mean: they are not obliged to fast? What about those People who self-report as fasting even when they know they are exempt?
Thanks for insinuating my motives.
Now you are talking out of your ass. There is little pressure. My grandmother was devout as anything. Prayed 5 times a day. I am 32 now, she lived until I was 29 (was 92 when she died). In my 29 years, I never saw her fast ever in my life. She has been on blood pressure medication since her mid-fifties, i.e before I was born. Now one ever expected her to.
I try and fast all thirty days, but until last year I missed one or two for several years. This year I missed 8, because I was laid up with a 103F fever for several days.
Also there is another thing which you don’t seem to understand or are being purposefully obtuse about. There are 29 or 30 fasts. Just because someone fasted, one day, does not mean that they fast all 29 or 30 days. One or two fasts a months will do nothing to you.
:rolleyes:
People do stupid things, news at fucking 11. Did they fast all 30 days? Did they fast once or twice? Did they get medical advise?
Yes, they are not obliged to fast.
Don’t need to “insinuate”, your motives are pretty apparent on the face. I mean you called Turks illiterate hicks a few posts back.
:rolleyes:
I wonder if there are any German stereotypes which could be used?
Oh okay AK84 if your grandmother didn’t fast then that means there’s no social pressure in the Islamic world to fast. Thanks for clearing up that issue forever.
this has been already cited.
End of the discussion. I have no use for stubborn ignorance.
Yes of course you got me. I have only llved in a Muslim country my entire fucking life. Of course a guy on the internet knows better than I do. So sorry.
103F fever for several days? Yikes! I’m glad you’re OK now, AK84.
Seriously? You must realize why this is a shitty argument to use to say I’m way off base. Maybe I am, but using one person as your proof is dumb. And also youre also just one guy on the internet, who happens to live in Muslim country.
You clearly don’t know a lot of Eastern Orthodox Christians then, because they take fasting rules quite seriously indeed.
I’ve known a fair amount of Catholics and Anglicans who observed the fasting rule on Good Friday & Ash Wednesday (one normal size meal a day instead of three), and still more who will observe the no food for three hours before the Eucharist, and there are definitely Protestants who will occasionally undertake voluntary fasts of varying sorts.
Fasting disciplines have, yes, largely broken down among western Christians in the last 60-70 years or so, but they certainly haven’t disappeared. I disagree with the water thing, but I think Christians could learn from Muslims in terms of fasting practice at least to some degree.
No meat from mammals/avians (Latin does not use the same word for the flesh of fish). No beef or lamb (red meat), but also no pork or chicken or rabbit… none of which falls under “red meat”. But that is not fasting: that’s abstinence from meat.
Fasting is abstaining from food, including food in liquid form. Catholic practice counts water as separate from food, but there are practices which include abstaining from water.
As for why there are so many sweet dishes, that’s some sort of practice local to you which has got nothing to do with abstinence and is in fact contrary to Catholic fasting practices.
And the rule about “not eating before Eucharist” wasn’t only on Fridays. It was every time you were going to receive Eucharist. If your knowledge of Muslim fasting practices is as good as that of Catholic dietary rules, you’re completely off base.
No, I was refering to 1st generation Turkish immigrants in Germany, who were overwhelmingly from the rural countryside and badly educated. This is not only documented anecdotally, but statistically, and because it was intentional. The same happened with the first immigrant workers, who came from Italy: again, not from the industrialized cities in the North, but from rural places down in the South.
In both cases, the sending country’s govt. (Italy and Turkey) deliberately picked uneducated people to send in the first place: their hope was that with the good German dual system, the workers would get a quality education, without their own country having to pay for it or get the infrastructure, and after 4 years come back as qualfied workers and apply that qualification to their own country. (The German govt. expected to get willing workers for cheap to keep the economic boom going, and then let the workers return after 4 years, so integration was not considered necessary. The workers expected to earn money hand over fist in the rich west, and go back home to buy a house. )
These expectetations, for several reasons, didn’t turn out that way. The turkish workers stayed, had difficulties integrating, and their kids and now grandkids go to German schools, and have, despite problems from society and prejudices, a chance at getting every position (including becoming a Green politican Cem Özdemir, who has learned, unlike most native Swabians, to speak Standard German) - while their parents, busy with work and older, may still struggle with speaking German correctly.
That the Turks in Turkey are divided between educated, modern city-living people and older folks in the countryside was obvious with the Gezi park protests and the elections to give Erdogan and AKP more power, but that’s a different topic.
Some people might be overlooking the fact that these “seasonally extreme” Ramadans last for only a few years in the 30±year Hijri/Gregorian calendar cycle. Fifteen years from now, Ramadan will occur around the Northern Hemisphere’s winter solstice rather than around the summer one, so the fasts will be much shorter in most of the US and Europe.
That’s not to say that people shouldn’t take into account the health issues around lengthy fasts, just a reminder that this problem is by its very nature periodic rather than constant.