Well, I’d think about Patrice Émery Lumumba if I heard the name.
Reading that reflects great discredit on all concerned.
THAT is hugely unwise. Stephen works for Geoff, not the other way around. Geoff wasn’t asking a favor; he was giving an instruction. The most Stephen can do is, as Geoff’s friend rather than subordinate, possibly point out reasons firing them summarily is unwise. But if Geoff wants them gone, Stephen has to get rid of them.
And of course Stephen may not be about to counsel keeping them on anyway. He may be about to say, “Take your wife out to dinner tonight and leave a big tip so the waiter remembers you, and while you’re alibied I will gather three of our frat brothers and kick the crap out of LeMoyne.”
I wouldn’t call either passive. Patrice seems to have been the instigator, but LeMoyne is the one who made the majority of the insults. Geoff only considers punching up LeMoyne because he, like me, has a strong inhibition against striking women.
I would call what Geoff did “overhearing,” not “eavesdropping.” He didn’t set out to violate LeMoyne and Patrice’s privacy; they were in a public place.
I just want to throw out there that of the people I know that act like LeMoyne, they have a much higher likelihood of getting their shag on at work. It’s up to you if you want to keep around a guy who would even consider for a second that your office chair might also be an after-hours playground.
Agreed. And he’s not busting them for “thought crimes”. He’s busting them for actually insulting his wife. If they only ‘thought’ those statements, there would be no issue (assuming Geoff isn’t the Martian Manhunter).
Geoff is not the owner, and it may be unwise, even career suicide, to let LeMoyne go. Letting Patrice go and not LeMoyne might open Geoff up to unlawful termination suit. Patrice could argue, incorrectly, that she is being let go because she is a protected class and that LeMoyne was equally guilty and was not fired. This is how Stephen should counsel Geoff.
I’d personally like to lop off their heads and pull a ‘Lucy Liu - Kill Bill’ type scene to let everyone else know that discussing my wife is off limits. Might be better to transfer Patrice to a slow moving lot and let nature takes its course, and to take some leads from LeMoyne.
In a car dealership? It’s definitely documented already. Sales are monitored every week, so management can give a ration of shit to the low performers and a ration of praise to the stars.
As I wrote upthread I’ve worked as a car salesman. At my first dealership, the general sales manager and I were good buddies; he went out of his way to help me with my sales when I was struggling. Nonetheless, when I went in to give him my notice because I was moving to a corporate sales job, he laughed and said, "Are you nuts? Nobody gives notice in this business. So when do you start at the bank? Two weeks? Okay, take your resignation letter back so I can fire you and that way you’ll get unemployment in the meantime. And if you ever work in car sales again, do not give notice when you are ready to leave.
Donna has no idea what was said about her and will not unless her husband cruelly decides to tell her, so she wasn’t really insulted. Geoff would not have heard this if he had made his presence known or the left the area which would be the usual expectation of someone encountering two people in a private conversation. These guys weren’t sitting or standing next to Geoff in main reception hall among all the other guests. They were off in a semi-secluded area. Let’s face it, if the perceived ranks of the individuals were reversed and the Geoff the boss and his little office toady where making negative remarks about the wife of a salesman, plenty of people on this board would say the salesman should just suck it up and deal with it. Well, I don’t believe bosses are gods and if it wasn’t slander or libel or blalently done to hurt Donna by insulting her to her face, it’s none of Geoff’s business what someone says about his wife.
I don’t think even the people who think Patrice and LeMoyne should be allowed to keep their jobs thinks that what they said is acceptable.
And of course what people say about his wife is Geoff’s business. That is what “husband and wife” means. I’m not sure it’s wise for Geoff to fire L & P at this time, but I’m with him in thinking that an offense, injury, or insult to my wife is an offense, insult, or injury to me. In fact, hurting my wife is worse than hurting me.
Geoff is the business owner. Therefore, the decision is up to him. I don’t think gossiping necessarily SHOULD be a firing offense, but I don’t think it can’t be. It depends on how negatively it affects the relationship between employer and employee. So, if I were in Steven’s position, I would counsel Geoff that it’s ultimately up to him. It can be difficult to continue a business relationship lacking in mutual respect, so I would understand if he did fire the guy. But if he’s a top performer, it may be worth overlooking his lesser qualities (after putting the fear of god into him in a 1-on-1 meeting).
Personally, I’m a particularly crude individual. None of the comments made (or alluded to) are out of the realm of possibility as something I myself might say (particularly where alcohol is involved and the gossipee in question is not present). I would hope my boss in similar circumstances wouldn’t fire me, but I would understand if he did.
This doesn’t apply to statements made in a public setting.
It can also be a male name such as Patrice O’Neal.
Geoff is not the business owner, he’s the general manager.
[OP not poster]
Actually, no; he’s the general sales manager. I wrote it that way on purpose, because I wanted Geoff to have fiduciary obligations to someone other than himself. If the dealership were his sole proprietorship he’d be on firmer ethical ground canning both L & M, but his job is to make money for the company, and firing LeMoyne may not be in line with that.
I assumed male, as most of the Patrice’s I have known are of French descent.
I can’t decide…
On the one hand, I think that Geoff is taking the low road here. People say stupid shit/are assholes, is this news to anyone? I don’t know when not getting your feelings hurt became a right.
On the other hand, you don’t talk about ANYONE’S spouse like that. I don’t care how fugly he/she is. It’s unforgivable.
This speaks to the point I was making earlier. **ZPG Zealot **seems to have defined a lot of “rules” about what the boss can and can’t do when and where. But the fact of the matter is that bosses are people just like you. And if you insult your boss, you can’t expect he’s going to go out of his way give you help.
Maybe he won’t fire you. After all, a boss can’t fire everyone who makes a social faux pas. But he’s going to be a hell of a lot less tolerant if your numbers drop.
Yeah, I think Steven should suggest that he give them a chance to apologize. They’ll be horrified when they find they were overheard, and hopefully will realize how stupid they were being.
I wish I could say I never said anything that I’d be embarrassed if others heard it, and I’m in general not a very caustic or critical guy. I distinctly remember saying something really nasty about a guy in high school and as it turns out, he was right there and heard me. He was big enough to accept my apology. A couple years later, when he knocked me out cold over a silly misunderstanding, I accepted his apology. It sure was fun being a kid! Anyway, I should have learned my lesson, but I still bet I’ve said things I’d regret.
They were talking in a out-of-the-way place away from the main body of the party. I don’t see any evidence that the salesman intended anyone other than themselves to hear what they said. We shouldn’t have to go into locked, sound-proof rooms to have every conversation. Geoff was easedropping. He got the earful he deserved. He should be a man, ignore it, and in the future remember to make a throat clearing sound or something to alert people of his presense.
Not going out of the way to help someone, is considerably different from maliciously firing someone for an incident that has nothing to do with how well they perform their job. I absolutely think a boss should have a lot rules about what they can and can’t do to their employees. It’s too easy for them to abuse and exploit people otherwise.
The OP says that Geoff and L & R were out of one another’s sight (though obviously not hearing) when he first heard the insulting remarks. I don’t see how he could have known to clear his throat before the first two remarks were spoken. Moreover, simply clearing his throat might not have done much, as he was around the corner from them; how would they have known who was harrumphing?
They would have known somebody was around that corner and could hear what they were saying.