Who should be punished in this workplace violence situation?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Skaldthetical, longish storytelling OP, possibly a poll. Today’s hypothetical is about one Geoffrey Rayburn, majority owner and general manager a an automobile dealership, Rayburn Toyota. You may remember him from this thread, but you needn’t feel obliged to read it.

As our story begins, it’s shortly before opening two Saturdays before Christmas, and Geoff is walking into the used car building at his dealership; with him is his best friend, Stephen, the general sales manager. This is the first time either of them have been in the used car building in a month. Not only are their offices in the new car building, but the dealership will be moving to a new location in mid-January. Geoff has been busy setting up the new site and so hasn’t been around much, and in his absence Stephen has been doing both their usual jobs.

Heading to the office of the used car manager, Mike, Geoff sees one of the salesmen, Tony, heading to the desk of another, Frank. He thinks nothing of until a few minutes later, when there’s suddenly shouting from outside. Geoff, Steve, and Mike rush outside to find Tony supine on the floor and bleeding from the nose, with Frank standing over him, fists clenched; two other salespeople are restraining him. Angered by this, but with other stuff on his plate, Geoff tells Steve to find out what is going on. At the end of the day, Steve comes into his office.

“So what’s the deal?” Geoff says. “Who threw the first punch?”

“Frank,” Steve replies.

“That’s what it looked like. So did you fire or suspend him?”

“You’re going to have to decide that. Frank’s not the only one at fault.”

He goes on to explain. With the end of the year approaching, there’s a competition going on for the salesperson of the year, based on units sold and profitability. Whoever comes out on top will get a significant bonus. Tony and Frank are the top two contenders. Tony has been trying to psych Frank out–keep him in a bad mood so he won’t deal as effectively with customers–and so has been taking every opportunity to make comments about Frank’s wife. These started off as mildly suggestive–“Wow, Amy’s cute, you’re a lucky man”–but escalated to extremely offensive–e.g., “Pretty mouth she’s got, I hope you make her swallow.” Frank complained to Mike (their immediate supervisor) about this, but Mike did nothing; he thought the remarks were funny, and anyway believes that a “real” salesman should be able to handle someone trying to get into his head. Frank tried to come to Steve for help, but Steve has been so busy (by his own admission) that he never took time to hear him out.

This has been going on for a month, but this morning Tony crossed a line. He made a comment about Frank’s fourteen-year-old daughter. The person in the next desk overheard it: “Wow, she’s hot. Whoever pops her cherry is going to have a great time. I’d pay real money for a crack at it.” Hearing that is what sent Frank over the edge.

While Tony and Mike both deny any wrongdoing, the other used car salespeople and two people in the Get Ready department all back up Frank’s version of events.

“So that’s the deal,” Steve says. “Frank threw the first and only punch, but Tony provoked him. Mike never intervened because of his old-school management style; and, honestly, I should have been more on top of things than I was. There’s plenty of blame to go around here, some of it mine. You’re going to have to decide what to do.”

So what should Geoff do? Who deserves to be fired, suspended, or demoted?

Frank, who committed the actual act of violence?
Tony, who systematically harassed him and arguably provoked the violence?
Mike, who obviously ignored the harassment?
Steve, who negligently did not follow up when he had the chance to?

Yeah, and don’t wait for the poll. I just decided against it.

2

Fire Frank, who threw the punch. That’s just not acceptable – violence in the workplace should be an automatically fireable offense (except for, possibly, self-defense), not excusable even by extreme but non-violent harassment. Consider hiring him back in a year or two, perhaps, and possibly write him a good reference. Give him decent severance.

Fire Tony for the way-over-the-line harassment. No reference, and do not hire him back. No or minimal severance.

Discipline Mike – possible suspension and probable demotion, if he thinks such remarks are funny and acceptable in a work place. Mild discipline (ass-chewing) for Steve.

This is a seriously messed up workplace, and it needs a severe shake-up. This is the chance.

3

Off the cuff response - If I were Geoff:

Tony is fired. Walked off the lot and told never to darken the doorway on pain of pain.
Frank is suspended for oh, maybe a day or two. With pay.
Mike gets seriously yelled at, and maybe demoted.
Steve gets yelled at a bit, with the option to yell back at Geoff. Not his fault, but still his responsibility.

4

Sounds to me like Tony was working harder to earn that punch in the mouth than he was a bonus. Glad it paid off for him. Fire him.

5

Aside from what’s “right”, I don’t think there’s any way Frank doesn’t get fired. Tony will probably sue the dealership for being punched, and if Frank wasn’t immediately fired, Tony might be much more likely to win such a lawsuit.

6

Yah, (G) has a problem.

Steve for running of the mouth.

(F)ank has issues so he should go also.

Really need to see contracts on what is to be done.

If no contracts, then both are out the door.

Then blabbermouth + Mike need to get a public talking too ( all workers present )

Don’t care if it happens off the property.

But on the grounds, = big no,no. You will be suspended or fired.

These up here are going to be fined and put on probation.

Think about a different kind of competition.

7

Do you mean Tony? I don’t see how Steve is a blabbermouth.

8

Fire Tony.
No bonus for Frank. Written warning.
Look into Mike’s general competence as a manager. Fire him if it’s negative; no bonus otherwise.
No action against Steve.
Note to self that Steve did not delegate more to reduce his workload.
Workplace sensitivity training all round.

9

I’m surprised that no one else thinks Frank should/would get fired (obviously Tony should be fired). To me it’s a no-brainer – at the very least, to protect the dealership from a lawsuit.

EDIT: I see post #6 also says to fire Frank.

10

They sell a lot of cars? Keep them both, but tell them to keep apart. The next time one speaks to the other, the one who spoke gets canned.

11

Geoff needs to do a better job of running his business. Yes, I understand he’s working on the new place. Yes, I understand he has people and needs to do his job. But I rather dislike absentee bosses. I would be fine with “been a week or two”, he doesn’t need to breathe down people’s necks. But a month is too much. Obviously, as the owner, just a few mental kicks in the rear.

Steve, similarly, is probably beating himself up over this. Geoff probably just needs to review some expectations, maybe delineate that Steve should meet with people at least once a month. After all, if the used car side of the business had sales drop by 50% in a week, I’d expect Steve to be over there every day. Preventative maintenance is all. No discipline.

Tony is fired, no reference, no severance, walked out the door, security will mail you your stuff, if you come on the lot again we will call the cops. He went beyond the pale. Not to mention he’s actively trying to hurt sales, which is a firing offense in it’s own right.

Mike, I thought about the second longest. Alright, his “old school” management is terrible, clearly he should lose his management spot for letting the office situation devolve that badly. Plus, thinking that one employee insulting another employee’s family is “funny”? Not management material. The thing I wasn’t sure about was whether he should he be demoted or fired. He could be a bad manager but a decent salesman. Unfortunately, too many times I’ve seen when someone that was previously the boss gets demoted, they still act like the boss and expect to be treated like the boss. That kills morale. In the end I think Mike gets a severance package and maybe an oblique reference to his sales skills, and let’s his management abilities go unmentioned if someone calls. I’d try to do it with a handshake, but I know firing people rarely goes that well.

Frank is the one I thought hardest about. Now, workplace violence is unacceptable. Period. But, he was doing everything right up until that day. Coworker makes snide comment, ignore it. Comment goes beyond snide, go to your boss. Boss doesn’t listen, go to boss’ boss. Actually, this is a bigger problem for Steve - he could have nipped this in the bud if he had listened to Frank instead of not having the time to “hear him out” (Side note: If I were Geoff, I would ask Steve to elaborate on what he means by not hearing Frank out. The answer might decide whether Steve takes on the used car manager spot vacated by Mike, or kept on as General Manager). Anyway, I think I’d tell Frank that, while I understand the position, he should spend the rest of the year with his family. Nothing personal, just give things time to cool off. Oh, and by the way, congrats on winning the salesmen of the year award. Too bad we won’t have a big presentation for the check you’re getting.

12

The courts have held that even men can file a hostile workplace claim. If there was hostile sex-talk going on, Frank is going to make some money.

The dealer needs to fire Tony and Mike in order to cover his behind. Tony needs to be fired for creating a hostile workplace and Mike needs to be fired for not acting on the report. Frank will still have a case against the dealer, but if any more complaints come up, the dealer will be in even bigger trouble for not acting when they found out.

And, of course, Frank needs to be fired. The proper recourse is through complaints through management channels and then through legal channels, not through use of fists.

13

Frank DID follow the proper channels. The proper channels did not do their job.

Legally, I believe “fighting words” is still a defense, so I don’t think Frank has legal problems to worry about. And honestly, if Tony sues, he better be prepared to try and defend suggesting that someone’s 14 year old daughter become a whore on the stand. I’m sure a jury will look real kindly on that.

14

Mike is a moron and should be fired immediately. I just let someone go for less

Tony should be fired immediately.

Frank should be suspended, with the incident documented.

15

I don’t think Frank deserves to be fired. The statements about his wife were bad enough, but the one about his daughter? I think a reasonable man can be excused for losing his temper for that one, and it’s not reasonable to expect people to be Vulcans or saints. But yeah, from a business perspective, he probably should be, or at least punished, and in some real way. I’d

Nitpick: Steve is general sales manager, not general manager. That means that both the new car manager and the used car manager report to him, as does, say, the Get Ready department, but not the service, parts, or administration departments. Geoff is the general manager; everybody in the dealership ultimately works for him.

The story takes place in Memphis. The jurors’ main question will be, “Frank, why did you not shoot Tony in the face?”

16

This is one weird office. Fire 'em all - Frank, Tony, and Mike. Punching someone in the middle of your workplace for insulting you is wrong, even if they’re way, way over the line. Frank’s an adult; he should be able to control his fists. Yes, the comments were incredibly inappropriate, but punching him was a bad idea from all the angles. There’s also the legal angle for firing Frank, too. Tony obviously never seemed to get past 7th grade mentally, and Mike sounds like a really crappy manager.

17

Nah. Frank’s suit is the one to fear, were he fired, or even just really unhappy with how the chips fall. Jurors will understand how he was driven to this:

Fire Tony.
Reprimand and demote Mike.
Reprimand Steve.
Apologize to Frank.

18

Mea culpa; I read “majority owner” and glazed over “general manager”.

I’m not familiar with the ownership structure of a dealership: would it be inappropriate for Geoff to operate as General Manager and General Sales Manager? If that’s fine, I might send Steve to run the Used Car side “while we look for Mike’s replacement”, with the idea that Steve needs some practice listening to his employees and not spending time in his ivory tower. Steve doesn’t know it, but that’s his chance to shape up a bit. He’s been fine before, if he’s fine here, eventually Geoff hires someone to run the Used Car side and Steve returns to upper management. (From the story, I get the idea this is the mostly likely option). If Steve instead plays it hoity-toity and used cars doesn’t improve (which, without a jerk like Mike at the helm, it should improve), maybe he stays there while he refines his management skills and Geoff brings in someone else as General Sales Manager.

If it’s not feasible to be GM and GSM at the same time, Steve just has to play double-duty for a month while Geoff finds a new manager.

:smiley:

19

Frank and Tony are fired.

Mike can resign or take a demotion to one of the above available positions.

20

Seems to me that both could have a lawsuit, but if both are fired then they’re less likely to succeed (if perhaps more likely to file).