I grew up Mormon was was so until my mid 20s.
Mormonism is a weird dynamics. Almost all my relatives are still practicing and there’s a strange group thing about it. I’ve got a good friend from high school who invited me to a ward BBQ when I visited him. He was completely different one in one than in a group.
Ah, that rings very true.
Banning alcohol from an all-day potluck family get-together is pretty far from the American cultural norm, to the extent that I’m tempted to call it poor form. If somebody wants a t-total event, that’s fine if that’s their preference and they’re inviting everyone to a dinner they’re paying for.
But at the same time, surely they wouldn’t be making this request if there’s not a good reason for it. They’re under no obligations to explain their reason for it. Presumably there are people (it’s never only one in a family) who have a drinking problem, and they deserve to see all their family as much as anybody else. If no booze is a dealbreaker, everybody has been informed and can make their own decision about whether they want to go.
Depends on the family.
There is no one “American cultural norm” about this; if there is about anything. There are a whole lot of different American cultures.
It wouldn’t surprise me if there was no alcohol at Mitt Romney’s family reunions.
Not to mention family get togethers among Southern Baptists. I dated a Pentecostal once, alcohol was exceedingly rare at get togethers.
I’m in the UK too, and most kids’ parties I’ve been to (as a parent) haven’t involved alcohol. It was something I first heard about via TV and then encountered in person with middle-class friends. And then it was always wine.
The first time I offered alcohol was when my daughter was 13, and then us Mums had a pretty good time getting slightly tipsy - but 13 is not really a kids’ party anyway.
The USA was always drier than the UK. The Women’s Temperance Union was founded in the USA, and achieved prohibition with the consent of voters. That didn’t happen in the UK.
American business reflects the puritan attitude towards drinking. It didn’t cause it.
Yes, and also the liability factor in the American legal system.
I have a friend who is really into insurance. She created a kerfuffle amongst her family when they learned she always purchased “event insurance” when she hosted family gatherings.
Dare I ask why anyone would care? (Are these held at her place or elsewhere? If the latter then, well, lots of places require you to have a policy before renting from them.) Is the idea that family thinks friend doesn’t trust them enough to not wreck her shit or hurt themselves or something and perceive it as some type of slight against them? Because, yeah, that’s dumb (the family members thinking that.)
This. My friend gets event insurance for any gathering at her home. So, the ladies book club meets for tea? She gets insurance. According to her it is very cheap. A relative found out from a friend and the family felt slighted.
I mean, sure, it’s perhaps overkill, but if someone’s risk tolerance is pretty low, why not? (That’s just rhetorical – I’m not specifically asking you why not.) Accidents do happen, after all.
Does any money change hands when she holds those book club meetings and family gatherings? I’m pretty sure her homeowners policy covers her with no extra purchase. Homeowners general liability is fairly broad. And if she has an umbrella policy, it’s even broader.
No money is changing hands. She has an excellent homeowners policy and an umbrella policy to cover excesses on her home/auto/etc. She’s kinda nuts, but she would point out that the event coverage she adds on is cheap and makes her comfortable.
Yeah, reading back through this I actually think the big issue is more the “contrived control” than anything else. A lot of these other scenarios I think just come down to people with very different lifestyles. A lot of you don’t drink and don’t have friends who drink, so when you have gatherings alcohol isn’t present.
I have friends who drink, and some friends who don’t drink. At gatherings people often bring their own alcohol, and alcohol is sometimes provided.
None of those are outside the norm. Someone hosting a gathering where alcohol isn’t provided isn’t outside the norm either. What is frankly outside the norm in my lifestyle, is people posting rules about personal behavior in informal settings. I’d frankly be surprised to find any rules sent with an invitation to an all day, outdoor potluck. That’s what we’re talking about here. And that’s more what would put me off. Frankly if I show up at an informal event and no one has provided alcohol, I doubt I’d give it a second thought, in fact that’s happened to me before. If I feel like drinking, I’d go buy some. If I don’t, I’ll chill out without it. What is outside of my lived experience is people having rules like this for informal gatherings. To me it’d be no different than a “don’t wear a t-shirt” rule for an outdoor potluck. You may think t-shirts are ugly, but you’re a weirdo if you’re trying to control what sort of shirt I wear at an informal event.
Honestly, rules being posted for any type of event among friends is just massively outside my life experience and that’s probably the most jarring thing about this scenario. My objection is more to the existence of the rule than anything else. All these hypotheticals about would I stay at a party without meat or alcohol are kinda unrealistic.
Now, hosted events that are ran by some organization or company, I generally am not surprised to see rules posted with it. But social events among friends? No, that is weird. My objection to receiving an invite to such an event that says “don’t bring alcohol” has less to do with the alcohol than it does the weird desire to control what I consume when it’s none of your business.
Even my Baptist extended relatives I mentioned before, didn’t “post a rule” about no alcohol. Their gatherings were just culturally understood to be dry. Frankly if I showed up at one with a 12 pack of beer I actually don’t think they’d say jack shit. They’d be outraged, and later they’d gossip about how terrible I was, but I sincerely doubt even a single one of them would tell me to leave or put the alcohol away. That’s because no alcohol among them isn’t a “rule” it’s a cultural convention. Even they probably wouldn’t try to enforce that cultural convention through a formal rule, they’d just be unhappy and maybe not invite you again.
I disagree with you only in the respect that I would assume that if I was told not to bring alcohol to an all day, outdoor potluck , I would assume that it was because someone attending is an alcoholic in exactly the same way I would assume I was told not to bring anything containing peanuts because someone is allergic. And that is very possibly why I don’t understand the “control” issue
I’ve never been invited to an event where someone says “don’t bring alcohol” or “don’t bring peanuts”, but there is basically only one possible reason I can imagine someone would say don’t bring peanuts, so I would assume it was an allergy. There are many possible reasons one would say don’t bring alcohol, and it’s an unusual enough request I would expect elaboration, because frankly if the answer is “I disapprove of drinking and don’t want you drinking” that is something I would take issue with and would not want to attend.
I don’t like tobacco smoking and don’t smoke tobacco, but I’ve never told a smoker they can’t bring tobacco products onto my property, nor would I tell them they can’t smoke–as long as it is outside a decent bit away from everyone else (and I think that is the cultural convention around smoking, in the present era, I haven’t encountered people who assumed you could smoke indoors in ages.)
Every party has rules. As mentioned above, most US parties have rules like “you must wear clothing covering your genitalia”.
If your guests are all from a narrow social circle, you don’t need to “post” the rules because they all know that your kid is deathly allergic to nuts, and won’t bring nuts.
If your guests are from a broader swath, you may need to post rules. That’s not “being controlling”, it’s “sharing the norms of this particular party”.
I don’t post “no smoking”, but if someone took out a cigarette in my living room I’d send them outside. And if i were too slow, and they lit up in my living room I’d be unhappy for several days, (because that smell LINGERS) and never invite them again. That’s a cultural norm in all the social circles i hang out in.
Shoes indoors are a good example of a norm that varies among my friends. I go to some parties where the hosts expect everyone to remove their shoes, and others where bare feet would be inappropriate. Friends who want everyone to remove their shoes mostly say that in advance. That’s not “being controlling”, that’s “keeping dirt off my rugs”. I assume they don’t care what’s on my feet in my home.
We used to have a no alcohol rule when my MIL (a recovering alcoholic) visited, and yes, i shared that with other guests, because that isn’t always true at parties at my house.
And, “there’s a recovering alcoholic on the group” seems like a much more likely assumption than “I disaprove of drinking and don’t want you to drink”, because, gee, I’m only setting norms for the couple of hours you are here, it would be dumb to think i can prevent you from drinking.
I disagreed with you earlier on this. I have never been to a party where they sent out rules in advance including “you must wear clothing covering your genitalia”. Even at houses where the homeowners typically remove their shoes in doors (like mine) the rules are removed for parties. It’s not worth bringing down the fun of a party by enforcing rules on people that are trivial.
I was with you on the first part. I don’t post no smoking rules for my home at parties and I send smokers outside. If someone lit up in my living room I’d send them outside but never inviting them to a party again seems crazy to me. That is exactly the weird controlling behavior we’re talking about.
My social group includes people from all over the world and to expect them to all conform to a single way of having a party is the ultimate in controlling behavior. Accept people as they are if they are harming something let them know to stop and what the preferred behavior is. On the other hand if they aren’t harming anything like drinking in front of an alcoholic then let them relax in their own way.