Should you make it clear in advance if the invitation is to a 'dry' event?

In My Humble Opinion
303

“wear clothes” was supposed to be an example of a rule i don’t have to mention in advance, because everyone knows it. So is, “don’t take a dump on the living room floor”.

I have never seen either of those spelled out in advance. Because EVERYONE AT PARTIES I ATTEND ALREADY KNOWS THAT THOSE ARE THE RULES.

When your party guests are culturally homogeneous, you don’t need to mention those rules that are part of that group’s culture.

As for smoking in my living room, it has nothing to do with “controlling your behavior”. Smoke like a chimney in the privacy of your own home. I don’t care. But if you soil my home, i probably won’t invite you back. And yes, i will be airing out the room and smelling smoke for days if you smoke in my living room. It would be easier for me to clean up if you took a dump on the floor.

304

Never inviting them again seems perfectly fine to me. Lighting up indoors without being expressly told you can do so is akin to belching or farting loudly during the meal. That is simply out of bounds in today’s (Western) culture. Especially if there is a child around.

305

Talk about some massive strawmen, like I said–if someone’s reason for not wanting alcohol at a party is “I don’t approve of drinking and don’t want you drinking”, I consider that to be way out of bounds for any social gathering. Hosting a get together is not an opportunity for you to act in loco parentis for another adult. I never mentioned any of those other crazy things, and no one would consider those things to be “controlling.” But I also am willing to bet no one on this forum has ever received an invite to a party that said “don’t take a shit on the floor”, or “please don’t show up with your dick exposed”, maybe if we were in the habit of partying with Cro-Magnon people or something, sure. But let’s get serious here.

Like I said, I don’t really get sent rules for social gatherings. Maybe in some people’s worlds that is normal, in mine it is extremely not. So if I saw rules with an invite to an informal social gathering, particularly one so informal as a “potlock outside”, I would most likely question the rule unless it was manifestly obvious what purpose the rule was serving. A “please refrain from bringing any dishes made with tree nuts”, almost without doubt would be related to someone with a serious nut allergy being there. There’s really no other reason someone would even bother to mention such a thing, so it’d be obvious and unnecessary. If the rule is “please do not bring alcohol”, that has multiple explanations, some which I would be fine with and some I would not. If I inquired about it and was told a contingent of guests were from a religious custom that forbade them socializing around alcohol, or that there was a recovering alcoholic present, I would have no issue respecting that. It’s literally never been my experience of encountering that, and I have been at gatherings of mixed-religious background where Mormons or Muslims were present, and I know both traditions have varying interpretations of alcohol and how appropriate it is to be around it. At least in my experience those people in the social gatherings in which I’ve participated, have not weighed in on the presence of alcohol. I assume if they disapproved, they decided it was not a big enough deal for them to raise issue over it, and the host of the gathering didn’t feel it was either. Same for recovering alcoholics. We have a cousin who is not only a lifelong and very destructive alcoholic, he has a bad habit of breaking into drinking when around other people who drink–even after years of sobriety. When it is known he’s going to be at an event there’s almost never alcohol. However we don’t actually post a rule about it, because it’s just understood, in the few circumstances where the gathering includes lots of people not familiar with his issues, I think he just gets by. Note that he has regularly been at restaurant dinners where alcohol is on the table too, so it’s not like he actually lives his life sequestered from alcohol. He has never once requested anyone not drink around him. It’s just known that he’s an alcoholic and despite long stretches of sobriety, he has “fallen off the wagon” enough that those of us who know him well are careful about exposing him to alcohol more often than is necessary. But we’ve never felt the need to codify it into rules that people follow.

But, if we did, and we told people about it, I’d expect them to abide, as I would abide if a host did such at one of their gatherings. Like I said though, it’s just never happened.

Now if someone doesn’t want me to bring alcohol to a gathering because they just disapprove of drinking, I’m sorry but I take issue with that. You can run your property like a silly little despotism if you want, but I find that off putting and a sign of being a bad host. I generally don’t try to enforce arbitrary household rules on my guests, and I don’t think hosts should do so when I’m a guest. Accommodating a serious allergy, religious belief, or substance abuse problem is not “arbitrary”, and thus why I would view those differently. Like I said, it’s not about the alcohol as it is about the weird control behavior–I would react the exact same way if I was told not to wear a t-shirt to a potluck. Sorry, but it’s not your business what I’m wearing at an event like that. A formal event it should go without saying you dress appropriately, but you have no business telling me what to wear at a potluck within the bounds of normal human attire.

306

You seem to be totally missing my point. I brought those up as examples of “rules” so obvious that NO ONE would post them in advance. Because it’s reasonable to assume that everyone already knows that.

But if you travel in a variety of social circles, you will sometimes run across cultural assumptions you are not familiar with.

You seem to stick to a very culturally homogeneous group:

Because your group all knows the rules

Because they all have a similar idea of the rules. Hell, you all already know that the guy has alcohol problems. Do you not attend parties with people you haven’t already met?

Eh, i had a friend show up in a ratty t-shirt to my father’s funeral. I wore a suit. So did almost all of the guests. I was delighted he came, and he presence was comforting. So i kinda disagree with you on that one.

My friends are very diverse, and definitely come to parties with different assumptions. So it’s helpful to let them know if there’s a rule that matters.

Yes, so would i. And if expect them to abide without quizzing me about why it was a rule. That’s not really their business.

307

I’ll repeat–I do not normally get given rules for social events. Since it is abnormal for me to receive them, I would question strange rules if presented. I consider it outside the bounds of appropriate behavior to say “no alcohol because I don’t believe you should drink, so I won’t allow you to drink on my property.” Hosting a party is not a chance for you to be people’s parents. It’s great for you that you have a friend group that has to send statutory rules for every gathering, that sounds really fun and I’m envious I haven’t experienced that. But you can repeat that that is your experience in as many posts as you want, it doesn’t change it is isn’t my experience. When I encounter things far out of my experience, I will have a certain response–in the case of what I would consider to be an unusual rule, I would inquire as to the reason for it. As I’ve explained, if the reason was obvious, I would not bother to inquire. The reason for not wanting alcohol is not obvious without context. And it is my experience that there are a large number of people who have no reason for being anti-alcohol other than Puritanical and controlling mindset, and I would view someone choosing to act that way towards guests to be rude. I don’t go to events held by rude people. But maybe it’d be to accommodate an alcoholic or someone with a strong religious conviction against being around alcohol, which as I said, is a different matter.

308

This is the straw man. No one has advocated that. The op turned out not to be able that. No one has even described an event they’ve been to where that’s the case. It would never occur to me that my friend, who is hosting a party, is somehow disaproving of me because of the rules she’s set.

I think this may be a difference between those who prefer explicit or implicit rules. I admit, i like to know what to expect. You prefer not to be faced with explicit rules because you find that off-putting.

I see rules like, “don’t park to the side of the driveway, you may fall through the septic tank. You can park on this side street, but not that side street”. I wouldn’t know that.

Or like “please leave by 9:30 so we can get to bed”. I’d never set a rule like that. Hell, one year i was awakened new year’s day by a late friend starting their car in my driveway. But i don’t take it as an insult, just a request to respect my friend’s needs.

“No peanuts” is fairly common. I’ve been to potlucks where we’ve been asked to label our offerings with an ingredient list, too.

I went to an Orthodox Jewish shindig where the rules for how i should dress were several paragraphs long. Because they knew they were inviting people who weren’t familiar with their rules for modesty. They wouldn’t have said anything if they’d only invited people from their synagogue.

309

What has happened, is non-drinkers seem shocked people would take affront to a “no alcohol” rule, and I was explaining what I think is really the reason those of us who would take affront, would take affront. For whatever reason it’s my experience lots of non-drinkers or very seldom drinkers have weird hang ups around drinkers, or believe weird things about them. A belief I have seen multiple express in this thread is if you took any issue at all with a “no alcohol” rule, it means you have a drinking problem. [I’m glad we have so many people who are experts in addiction treatment and can diagnose a drinking problem based off of a message board post.]

While it is neither here nor there and getting into the weeds, while I would likely accommodate a religious request to not drink at a gathering with people whose religion discourages them from being around it, I would not accommodate or attend any conservative/seriously Orthodox Jewish gathering. I believe the cultural practices and beliefs of their faith are bigoted and evil, and do not associate with people who have beliefs and practices like that.

All that being said, OP’s situation was someone OP wasn’t terribly close with, hosting a large but informal gathering of mostly family, and imposing a rule that is out of the norm. So I think opinions like ours are what was being solicited–people unfamiliar with being proffered rules for informal gatherings. I explained that I would be highly skeptical of such rules and would want to know more. I would inquire politely. Some answers would be fine, some would not. I grew up in a conservative religious area full of busy bodies, so my personal experience is lots of people have weird control issues and I would frankly, be wanting to make sure I’m not wading into something like that.

To remove what, for some reason, tends to be an emotionally charged thing for people–pretend it’s not alcohol. Pretend again, informal potluck, hosted by people you don’t know all that well, but it’s an extended family thing and the host is someone who has married into the family awhile back but again, you’re not too close with. In the invite they stipulate “We would ask all women attending wear dresses.” No further explanation. The family is not from a religious tradition in which women have a dress code. Now, maybe your attitude is “well, their party their rules.” My attitude is not that, I do not accept weird rules like that, which appear to me to be arbitrary, without knowing more. If the answer I got back was unsatisfactory, especially if it was something objectionable like “I just think women look appropriate in dresses and that’s what I think they should wear”, I would not attend the party, because I would consider it a rude request (I’m not a woman obviously, so the rule has zero impact on me, but I object to the spirit and intent of the rule and the mindset that would produce such a rule.)

310

I’m a drinker (though a bit less during the pandemic, but pre-pandemic I was at the bar at least one night a week) and I’m a bit shocked people would take affront to a no alcohol rule.

311

And threads like this, which concern etiquette, are almost always informed by personal experience and norms, so there isn’t going to be a universal response set. But I do not think people should assume the only reason someone might question what appears to be an arbitrary rule is “because the person is a fall down drunk.”

312

I’m still befuddled as to why we have to accommodate alcoholics to such an extreme extent. Any SDMB party isn’t going to be a college let’s all get bombed and puke party.

The person is recovery is going to be able to need to deal with alcohol in real life. I myself never comment nor care what someone is drinking. Maybe there are people who try to force alcohol on someone or berate them for not drinking, but I’ve never ran across them and definitely not in my social circles as an adult in the USA.

313

I tend to agree (and I volutneer in an addiction and recovery center and am myself currently off the sauce), but everyone is different, and I do find it touching that folks would consider that person’s needs to the extent as to make the party dry. (In my own case, I have told people explicitly NOT to do anything like that, despite my sister-in-law saying she won’t drink around me. For myself and myself only, that is counterproductive. People are free to drink in my presence, no problem. I still meet up with friends at bars, too.) That said, even when I was literally a daily drinker, I would not have been put off by a “no alcohol” party (and I have been to several due to religious and cultural norms of the people throwing the party.)

314

Event insurance normally covers losses for event cancellation. It also may include 3rd party injury insurance – which should be covered by your home owners insurance.

The problem is that when you have two insurance companies covering the same event, they may fight about liability. That’s almost as bad as having no insurance.

315

She may be buying an add-on from her regular insurer. My guess is that she doesn’t understand what it covers. I’m pretty sure the coverage she actually wants is the liability coverage that she already has through homeowners insurance. (Unless she charges people to come to these parties, in which case they might not be covered.)

316

I have. When I worked retail there was a big birthday party (I think) one Sunday evening after the store had closed at a bar. I had several co-workers harass me for being a non-drinker. One went so far as to try to and give me a spiked soda.

Thing is is I’m terrible at parties and was sitting quietly with my soda and watching sports (probably football) with some other socially anxious co-worker when they came over. I wasn’t interacting at all. But the drinkers just had to come harass me.

317

Years ago when we first lived in Kentucky, we took my father out to a nice restaurant in Mercer County, which we didn’t realize is a dry county. He was somewhat put out by the fact that he couldn’t get his customary drink before dinner, but accepted the situation in good humor.

I can well imagine some friction in a family over a no-alcohol request for a gathering. Refusal to attend signals that alcohol access and or control issues take precedence over the pleasures (?) of family get-togethers, which is sad, or maybe not.

318

Those people suck. I used to drink nothing at all (now it’s one drink) and I would even bring my own sodas. Every fucking time, even people who new me where like “let’s have a drink (usually beer, which I hate”, “gotta drink with your buddies (my actual friends don’t need me drunk)”

319

Yes, I think I should know in advance if an event will be dry, especially because I’d want to know not to bring alcohol as a gift or to share. Dry parties are unusual in my world.

Yes, I will gladly attend your dry event. I do like to have a drink at parties, but it’s not really important to me. If you’re preachy about it, I probably won’t come because that’s icky.

No, I don’t need an explanation as to why it’s dry. It’s none of my business. I’ll assume you have a good reason.

I do think the scenario in the OP was handled badly. If a last-minute change like that is truly unavoidable, then the host should acknowledge the inconvenience, explain that it was unavoidable, and be apologetic about it. (They still don’t have to tell me WHY, though.)

Are you sure you have your terminology right here? Conservative Jews are less…I don’t know the right word, but the progression pretty much goes Reform —> Conservative —> Orthodox —> Ultra-Orthodox, with the ultra-Orthodox being the ones where the men wear the big black hats. “Conservative” doesn’t mean “conservative” in the usual sense here.

I can understand being put off by the ultra- and even regular Orthodox practices, but Conservative Jews are usually pretty darn secular. I can’t imagine there being any “rules” about what to wear to a Conservative Jewish wedding or bar mitzvah or whatever.

I suppose the exception would be the expectation that men put on a yarmulke in the synagogue. (Those are provided if you don’t have your own). But even then, I don’t think anyone would try to enforce that. I’ve never even heard anybody make a comment about another guest not wearing one.

Anyway, I support your decision not to attend events you find objectionable for any reason. I just wanted to make sure you meant to say what you said.

320

I said “conservative/seriously Orthodox” not “Conservative Jewish”, those are not equal terminology. Ultra-Orthodox also isn’t really a meaningful designator, there are hundreds of sects of Orthodox Judaism some are more conservative in their beliefs than others, and those Orthodox individuals specifically refer to the spectrum of Orthodox Jewish practice as ranging from conservative/liberal within the spectrum of Orthodox Judaism.

321

In both the US and Israel there’s a pretty clear divide between the “ultra Orthodox” and the “modern Orthodox”. Yes, there’s some wiggle room in between, but the vast majority of Orthodox Jews i know who actually practice fall clearly into one of those categories.

There are also some Jews who very rarely engage with the religious aspects, but are members of traditional Orthodox congregations because their family/community is. Those people tend to be very secular, they just happen to show up on high holy days at an Orthodox congregation. And those congregations tend not to police dress codes and such.