I look through the OP, and consider taking a stab at it, when finally I say “What’s the debate?” There really is none, you know.
It’s simply an opinion rant.
I thought about answering this thing, but why bother? What is there of substance to these viewpoints that can be debated?
Recently I ridiculed a similar thread, pretending to be a pirate, simply because it was the same kind bullshit, opinionated blather impervious to reason.
Let’s face it, nobody’s really looking to debate in these things, and most often substantive replies are simply ignored.
Shouldn’t these things be in the pit, or IMHO?
Why do political rants get the appearance of credibility by being allowed to exist in GD?
I think political debate can be constructive and informative, but threads like this are neither.
It’s political puke, halw-witted opinionations worthy of a Jerry Springer show, but not a debate.
Just a thought, but wouldn’t it be nice if the Moderators started to class up the joint and either move these things (and they exist on both sides of the political spectrum,) to more fitting forums, or just lock them for the waste of space they are?
A screwball idea might actually be an interesting debate, but there has to be some premise to actually start from. Some of these OP’s are a thousand words long so an early “what’s your point” can sometimes prod the OP to actually clarify into something interesting.
I’m also sick of the drive by OP, especially of the cut and paste variety. If you’re going to start an OP, at least check back a couple of times.
Finally, I really dislike the ones that seem straightforward but have some “assumptions” buried in the OP. Even worse, you put some thought, effort and cites into a serious reply, and then assumptions don’t come out until 15 posts later. If you want to debate a hypothetical situation, plainly label it as such. These are my assumptions: blah, blah, blah.
I’d love to see this technique used on Hardball, or the MacLaughlin Group, or any of the other shows where pundits scream at each other and don’t listen to anybody.
Disturbingly perky blonde conservative: Look, the country wouldn’t be in this mess if it weren’t for the dishonesty of the Clintonista… Eminent liberal who apparently shops at Salvation Army: Oh for Goodness’ sake, are we still complaining about Clinton when we have a drunken incompetant in the White House who… Pirate: Avast, ye prat’ling nincompoops! Hand o’er some content, or taste the edge o’ me sabre! ELWASAS: Well, we’d have some content if the Republicans would stop babbling about a president who’s been out of office since…AIIIEEEE! Pirate: ARR!
Arrr, mateys, mayhap I could join the pirate crew if you’ve need of another to hoist the mizzen, or whatever ye blackguards do when it’s not nap time.
The Mods do what they do, but it does seem like both of the threads mentioned in the OP were more IMHO-type items. I’d throw in the Lincoln thread as well, being as it was one of the lamest OP’s to show up in GD in recent memory (which is all the memory it seems I’ve got these days).
Of course, it might have been better if we all could somehow bring ourselves to just ignore the more transparently baited OP’s, but that wouldn’t be any fun, would it?
So, this Mod thing, is this like an elective office? So, maybe Scylla could run for Mod? We could have, like, an election.
Now, of course, in the interests of fairness, there should some sort of opposing candidate, someone who could be pressed into service. Let see, now…ponder ponder…
Kind of have to be female. Defintitely left of center. Someone not afraid to forthrightly express herself, even in the face of withering asperity. Hmmmmmm. Nope. No one comes to mind.
It stays in GD because it is an series of debatable statements and reasoning on one of the “Big Three” topics that almost guarantee a trip to GD sooner or later if posted in any forum (sexuality/gender, religion, politics), and because it is too controversial for IMHO (IMHO) and not enough of a pure flame to require moving it to the Pit. Demanding cites and vicious arguement is déclassé in IMHO, and I would not want the dopers to have to clench their teeth and not do their utter best to smash the allegations in the OP; however, if moved to the Pit any rational refutation of the OP would be rather buried under suggestions by various posters about committing obscene acts on deceased barnyard animals. So it stays in GD. If it was a pure “Bush is evil” OP, I would have shunted it off to the Pit, but one you start saying “Bush is evil because of X, Y and Z fact (that can possibly be proven/disproven), and from those facts I draw this interpretation (that can be shown misguided)”, then you have an OP which might have the makings of a debate. Not enough of one that it wouldn’t have been equally suited to the Pit, but enough that I’ll let it stay where it was originally posted and see if we get anything useful out of it. Anyhow, it’s far too easy to simply call a person a yak-felcher and be done with it, but if you actually try to rationally argue with an OP you think is ridiculous, you might get some ignorance-fightin’ done.
That said, feel free to continue arguing why we shouldn’t allow threads like that in GD. No skin off my nose.
Hey, If Scylla wanted to run for moderator, I’d vote for him instantly! But I don’t think the spot is open to public election. (Though I’ve seen Moderator elections on other boards)
Being a moderator on this board seems to be a nasty task, filled with ridicule and other assorted bullshit, but the fine folk who hold those jobs to so dauntlessly. Gotta love ‘em, but they weren’t put there by public vote.
If such a position was offered to Scylla by the folks that run this board, I’d hope he take it. But if he refused, I could completely understand that to.
This ain’t meant as a suck up to either the mods or Scylla. Some folks around here just seem to love putting the mods through hell, and it just don’t seem worth the pay.
Hey, If Scylla wanted to run for moderator, I’d vote for him instantly! But I don’t think the spot is open to public election. (Though I’ve seen Moderator elections on other boards)
Being a moderator on this board seems to be a nasty task, filled with ridicule and other assorted bullshit, but the fine folk who hold those jobs to so dauntlessly. Gotta love ‘em, but they weren’t put there by public vote.
If such a position was offered to Scylla by the folks that run this board, I’d hope he take it. But if he refused, I could completely understand that to.
This ain’t meant as a suck up to either the mods or Scylla. Some folks around here just seem to love putting the mods through hell, and it just don’t seem worth the pay.
While I can find no flaw in the rest of your post, I remain pretty unsure about this.
If you look at the OP I cited, you’ll see it’s nothing more but a broad rant based on generalizations as well as insight into a person’s character and motivations that the OP could not possibly posess.
Seeing as it’s not based on logic or reason, it’s really not subject to refutation by either.
Really, it’s just mudslinging, creating a mess for other people to clean up, and it gains credibility by dignifying it with a denial.
Hopefully you know me well enough to know that I don’t wish to take the easy way out, and will happily debate to the bitter end, but I think we’re seeing a lot of political baiting disguised as debate.
As they say in the Wendy’s commercial “Where’s the Beef?”
I did the exact same thing, on the exact same thread.
**
So, your response (and my response) was the proper response. Don’t play the game.
I’m not talking about failure to engage somebody in an actual debate, when they are asking you to specific questions or refuting your points in a way that warrants a response. I can think of at least one regular GD political thread denizen who does that, and it’s cowardly.
But threads like the one you cite in the OP aren’t even worthy of appearing to put in a roll-eyes smiley.
Another one that comes to mind from recently, someone started a thread saying Jesus: I’m not impressed. Didn’t really say much more than that in the OP, either. Such a thread was not worthy of a response, IMO, and the fucker went several pages.
By not playing, eventually The Usual Suspects will realize that they are all alone in those threads, engaged in mindless, unproductive back-slapping. Or not. But the peace of mind you personally gain is immeasurable.
Interesting thing is that though one would think that perhaps the best approach is to ignore this type of thread, as Milo suggests, I notice that the exact opposite is usually done. The two threads used as examples in this thread went 3 and 5 pages. I have noticed many other such threads with contentless OPs (e.g. many of Wildest Bill’s) run on for hundreds of posts and thousands of views.
Two theories:
A contentless OP is broader and gives everyone the chance to express an opinion on the general topic, whereas a more focused one is more limiting. So that for example a thread consisting of “hey, Bush is a spoiled rich idiot” gives all a chance to weigh in on almost anything they have to say about Bush, whereas “Bush made a mistake by doing X” or even “Bush tends to have X fault as manifested in Actions Y and Z” requires a more carefully focused response.
Many people find it easier to debate ridiculous statements than more sustainable ones. So that saying “let’s nuke the entire Afghanistan” gives people a chance to participate without straining their mental resources, while “the US should emphasize this particular tactic” requires a lot more thought and knowledge. I have read very few of the really idiotic threads, but my impression is that a high percentage of the posts in them consist of people saying “hey that’s idiotic” rather than anything that requires actual intelligence.
I personally favor the approach taken by the posters in the Lincoln thread.
The OP:
andros responded:
Then DDG followed up with:
And they were off and running.
The problem with simply ignoring a worthless OP like that is that we have a steady influx of newbies, and the OP will get responded to in some fashion. If the veterans of past trolls just ignore the OP, those who are less far along on the learning curve will be sucked in, and by the time they’ve learned their lessons about trolls, there will be more newbies to be suckered in. Meanwhile, the troll’s game keeps working.
But the response that andros started in the Lincoln thread stops the troll’s game in its tracks, and educates the newbies, too. There’s a lot to be said for that.
