Sick of This "Breeder" Crap

The BBQ Pit
21

[QUOTE=XJETGIRLX]
Um. Did you read the same thread I did? The entire premise of that thread was based on whether a pregnant woman should be able to expect to have a seat offered to her. It was called " Should a pregnant woman be given a seat on a crowded train?", and one of the main questions in the post was “Am I temporarily entitled to the handicapped/elderly seats, if no one worse off than me needs them?” and everything. :dubious:
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It was a question; not a statement. They were asking opinions and they got them. If I’m fully pregnant but not in distress, I’m not “disabled” in any way so I would not be “entitled” to the seat. If, however, I am in distress due to pregnancy, I would be entitled. Simple.

22

[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
I don’t get it. I never *expected * anyone to give me their seat when I was pregnant, but if someone was nice enough to offer, I gladly took it.

I never said I deserved MORE respect…but I certainly don’t deserve LESS, which is what is implied when people use a term like “breeder” in a derogatory way.
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The problem as I see it was that the post wasn’t titled, “Should you offer a seat to a pregnant woman?” It was about whether a pregnant woman should feel entitled to a seat. A lot of us said no, she shouldn’t, and from this comment it would seem that you agree.

As for respect, we’re not talking about you personally here. I certainly do have less respect for a woman who feels that being pregnant makes her entitled to more respect, for no other reason than she is pregnant. Unless you are that type of woman (and it doesn’t seem that you are), I don’t see reason to find offense.

23

[QUOTE=Licentious Ectomorph]
And there’s the assumption of entitlement again. Not catering to a pregnant woman’s every wish is “punishing” her. :dubious:
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That’s not what I said. I said (and you quoted) if you NEED to sit down, you NEED to sit down. There are posters on this subject who have said “tough shit. You got yourself knocked up. Deal”. I’m saying if you are in distress, you have as much right as a person with a broken leg to take that seat. No one is catering to her every wish. You’re reading things into the statement that aren’t there.

24

And started two Pit threads because they got opinions they didn’t like.

When you ask for opinions, especially in public forums, you have to expect that you’re giong to get opinions. Some of those, you will not like.

25

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
It was a question; not a statement. They were asking opinions and they got them. If I’m fully pregnant but not in distress, I’m not “disabled” in any way so I would not be “entitled” to the seat. If, however, I am in distress due to pregnancy, I would be entitled. Simple.
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But the desired answer is implied by the very act of asking the question. Psych 101, y’know.

26

[QUOTE=fessie]

You ungrateful, whiny, self-centered brats. How dare you refer to a pregnant woman as a “breeder” beneath your contempt, unworthy of your seat on the train or bus, because she “chose” to become pregnant!

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nitpick: I was following that thread, and I do not recall seeing the word ‘beeder’ Were you thinking of this phrase?

[QUOTE=catsix]
I don’t think someone should expect special perks because they chose to breed.
[/QUOTE]

27

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
It was a question; not a statement. They were asking opinions and they got them. If I’m fully pregnant but not in distress, I’m not “disabled” in any way so I would not be “entitled” to the seat. If, however, I am in distress due to pregnancy, I would be entitled. Simple.
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And on that we would agree, but going back to the thread, the question wasn’t “Should a pregnant woman who is obviously in distress be able to expect a seat?” The question that was asked was whether a woman, based solely on the fact that she is visibly pregnant be entitled to a seat.

28

[QUOTE=XJETGIRLX]
And on that we would agree, but going back to the thread, the question wasn’t “Should a pregnant woman who is obviously in distress be able to expect a seat?” The question that was asked was whether a woman, based solely on the fact that she is visibly pregnant be entitled to a seat.
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And the replies were varied, as they are here.

29

As to the Gay thing — “breeder” is bandied about here in a disparaging way frequently, without the a “as a Gay man I believe” tagline. I don’t think the Gay community owns the term.

[QUOTE=XJETGIRLX]
I tend not to automatically equate pregnant with frail or in need of special treatment.

Women have been having babies forever. If standing up for a bit were that much of a hardship on a pregnant woman, you’d think we would have gone extinct long ago. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, ymmv, etc. ad nauseum.
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sputter sputter sputter

I’ll hazard a guess that you’ve never been pregnant.

Yes, pregnant women are frail and in need of special treatment. Particularly, as was the case in that thread, when they are carrying twins.

Why?

Because if they aren’t careful, coddled, and catered to, they and their offspring will die. It happens every day.

IIRC, the US has an abominably high infant mortality rate, given our socioeconomic status.

There’s a good reason why pregnant women are notorious for their craziness, and it’s because of the stakes.

Now, I’ll also guess that you and catsix aren’t really trying to be obnoxious about motherhood, but rather are asserting your strength and equality as Womyn. And I can understand that - I’m a child of the '70s, I remember the ERA and the “First Woman to (fill in blank)”. There really was a time when half the population was treated as inferior, and women had to work hard to prove themselves in the workplace.

Now that women have worked so hard to conquer so many fields (thank you to my sisters), it’s high time we recognized that what we’ve proven is not that we don’t belong at home, but rather that our biological roles as mothers and housewives are as difficult as any job. Get it? We wouldn’t have evolved as intelligent beings (equal to any man) if we didn’t need that intelligence in order to fill our role. Ducks don’t have wheels.

Not that I want to limit every woman to that role; I just want to see it elevated.

30

You’ve gotta be kidding me. I’d rather be clubbed like a baby seal than use the word ‘womyn’ because I think it’s a stupid feminazi term and part of the victim culture.

It really is that I don’t think people who choose to breed/reproduce/spawn offspring/whatever you wanna call it are any more special or deserving of special treatment than anyone else.

I don’t see it as anything I should have to be ‘grateful’ for, nor anything to applaud.

And I don’t consider it worthy of elevation, since it’s about as much of an accomplishment as taking a dump. It’s biologically programmed to happen and requires no highly deveolped skills or intelligence to cause. If reproducing were as difficult as becoming a doctor, lawyer, engineer, astronaut or professional athlete, then it might be worthy of ‘elevation’. As of right now it’s something any moron can do.

31

[QUOTE=fessie]
As to the Gay thing — “breeder” is bandied about here in a disparaging way frequently, without the a “as a Gay man I believe” tagline. I don’t think the Gay community owns the term.

sputter sputter sputter

I’ll hazard a guess that you’ve never been pregnant.

Yes, pregnant women are frail and in need of special treatment. Particularly, as was the case in that thread, when they are carrying twins.

Why?

Because if they aren’t careful, coddled, and catered to, they and their offspring will die. It happens every day.
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Yeah, because in areas where pregnant women aren’t catered to every minute of the day and kept from even the slightest inconvenience, they never have any children ever. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=fessie]
Now, I’ll also guess that you and catsix aren’t really trying to be obnoxious about motherhood, but rather are asserting your strength and equality as Womyn. And I can understand that - I’m a child of the '70s, I remember the ERA and the “First Woman to (fill in blank)”. There really was a time when half the population was treated as inferior, and women had to work hard to prove themselves in the workplace.

Now that women have worked so hard to conquer so many fields (thank you to my sisters), it’s high time we recognized that what we’ve proven is not that we don’t belong at home, but rather that our biological roles as mothers and housewives are as difficult as any job. Get it? We wouldn’t have evolved as intelligent beings (equal to any man) if we didn’t need that intelligence in order to fill our role. Ducks don’t have wheels.

Not that I want to limit every woman to that role; I just want to see it elevated.
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Oh no, you totally figured me out! Get a grip. This has nothing to do with not being relegated to a role. It has to do with people feeling entitled to preferential status just because of gender and status. And if you really think that all the inequality you grew up with has been conquered, you’re deluded. And I don’t know about you, but I see a role as mother or housewife as a social one, not biological.

32

Whooee. This got nasty quick.

First off, I think it’s horrible to assume that fessie is a bad mother:

…just because she’s sick and tired of hearing deroguatory things about parents/mothers/pregnant women.

I’m sure we’ll all have our own opinions on the issue (I, personally, see no reason why I WOULDN’T automatically offer my seat on a train to a pregnant woman. I’m sure she is more uncomfortable standing than I, and as such, I can’t just sit there like a lump and watch her struggle to balance when the train gets bumpy. She’ll get my seat, and frankly it doesn’t matter one whit to me whether she feels “entitled” to it or not.) but regardless of what we all think about the issue, nothing has been said in this thread that I can see to infer anything about whether the OP is a good parent.

Thing is, this whole thread was started because the OP was upset about how motherhood and parenthood in general often seems to be sneered at on this board. And suddenly she’s a bad mother? Ouch. That’s a pretty low blow, particularly when there’s absolutely no justifiable reason to say that.

33

[QUOTE=fessie]
Yes, pregnant women are frail and in need of special treatment. Particularly, as was the case in that thread, when they are carrying twins.

Why?

Because if they aren’t careful, coddled, and catered to, they and their offspring will die. It happens every day.

IIRC, the US has an abominably high infant mortality rate, given our socioeconomic status.

There’s a good reason why pregnant women are notorious for their craziness, and it’s because of the stakes.
QUOTE]
Fessie, none of this is true universally. Frail pregnant women are in bed for most of their pregnancy. The comparatively rare cases of women carrying twins will more often put them into the “distressed” column, but even that isn’t universal, and certainly not for the entire pregnancy.

Women don’t lose their unborn offspring to the fact that they had to stand on the bus. They usually lose them to improper prenatal care. If you lose the baby because you stood on the bus, more than likely you weren’t listening to your OB/GYN when he told you to stay in bed because you were high risk.

There’s a big difference between wishing the term “breeder” wasn’t tossed around like the word “nigger” at a KKK picnic and inventing prenatal health issues. Your argument in this paragraph is hurting your case.

34

So I’m sitting on the bus, minding my own business, and this woman says she’s pregnant and asks for my seat. Well, sure, I figure, and get up. Just making conversation I ask how far along she is. About 20 minutes she says, and am I tired.

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[QUOTE=Hamadryad]
Sounds fine to me, as long as that division continues as they grow up. You don’t have to look at them or deal with them when they’re growing up, I don’t see any reason you should benefit once they’ve turned into real people.
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Wait. You think I was actually seriously advocating physically dividing the world into two parts and only allowing children in one of them? It didn’t cross your mind that this might have been slightly veering into joke territory?

36

[QUOTE=XJETGIRLX]
That’s supposed to make me feel what, exactly? Motherhood does not automatically confer sainthood or respect. Any two yahoos with the right equipment can have a kid.

I didn’t see any disrespect for the institution of motherhood in that thread, just annoyance at people who choose to get pregnant then expect the rest of the world to accommodate them. The contempt isn’t towards the kids, but the self-absorbed parents.

I’m not saying this applies to all parents, but having a kid doesn’t remove you from the realm of the rest of us. It doesn’t automatically make you more respected, or more deserving of anything. It just makes you people who are going to have a kid.
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Look, it’s safe to say that a great number of people with… I don’t know, broken legs, broke said legs because of their choices. But I’m still not going to say “Dude, if you’d stayed home last weekend, your leg would not be broken. Instead, you went skiing. You made your bed, now lie in it.” If Dude is on crutches, Dude is getting my seat, because it might be hard for Dude to stand.

A visibly pregnant woman is carrying anything from twenty to fifty pounds of excess weight right in front of them. This is not always the easiest thing to do. So yes, they’ll be getting my seat as well. It’s simple politeness, and it has nothing to do with me reverencing the Sacred Womb, Seat of All Female Virtues. If I were carrying that weight in front of me, I’d probably want to sit down too. Hence, the giving up of the seat.

It’s not about entitlement or reverence. It’s just “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” If I was tired, or injured, or carrying something really freaking heavy, I would rather sit down than stand up. So if I see someone else in that situation, I will let them sit. It doesn’t cost me much energy, and if it gets a smile or a look of relief or a good response, that’s icing on the cake.

And anyway, how does anyone deserve a seat on the train in the first place? “I was here first?” Odds are you got on the train when you did because it was convenient to you. Now the pregnant lady is getting on the train when it’s convenient to her. It’s not a question of merit. And as far as I can tell, there aren’t special seats reserved for the healers of the sick, caretakers of the poor, and rescuers of the helpless. There are, however, a few reserved for people who may be uncomfortable standing for long periods of time. I think pregnancy qualifies someone for that honor.

37

[QUOTE=Bill Door]
So I’m sitting on the bus, minding my own business, and this woman says she’s pregnant and asks for my seat. Well, sure, I figure, and get up. Just making conversation I ask how far along she is. About 20 minutes she says, and am I tired.
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

38

[QUOTE=look!ninjas]

A visibly pregnant woman is carrying anything from twenty to fifty pounds of excess weight right in front of them. This is not always the easiest thing to do. So yes, they’ll be getting my seat as well. It’s simple politeness, and it has nothing to do with me reverencing the Sacred Womb, Seat of All Female Virtues. If I were carrying that weight in front of me, I’d probably want to sit down too. Hence, the giving up of the seat.
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So you give up your seat to fat people, or kids with backpacks, or businessmen with briefcases too, right?

[QUOTE=look!ninjas]
And anyway, how does anyone deserve a seat on the train in the first place? “I was here first?”
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Pretty much, yeah.

39

[QUOTE=catsix]
And I don’t consider it worthy of elevation, since it’s about as much of an accomplishment as taking a dump.
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You’re a moron. Really you are.

Maybe this is the way your mama brought you into the world and I can tell you’ve never been pregnant but equating the two makes you look like an absolute shithead -and in your case, literally?

40

[QUOTE=catsix]

snip

And I don’t consider it worthy of elevation, since it’s about as much of an accomplishment as taking a dump. It’s biologically programmed to happen and requires no highly deveolped skills or intelligence to cause. If reproducing were as difficult as becoming a doctor, lawyer, engineer, astronaut or professional athlete, then it might be worthy of ‘elevation’. As of right now it’s something any moron can do.
[/QUOTE]

Now Catsix, comparing childbirth to defecating is a little over the top. I mean, this is a 10 pound poo that you carry around for 9 months and then it all comes out at once. That is one hell of a bowel movement.

I hope you did not mean to compare the process of creating life to removing waste material from the body? If you were just trying to make a point, you did so with the 2nd part of the statement, but the first is kind of an example of what the OP is talking about.