This is something I feel I have to say due to all of the homosexual bashing I’ve been doing on this board. I’ll try to keep it short and sweet.
Mormons in general do not hate homosexuals. The hatred I have evidenced towards them in my posts here has been born of an intense, externalized self-hatred, as many have guessed.
However, this self-hatred has not been instilled in me by the LDS church, but rather by someone whom I will not name who abused me repeatedly as a child. If anyone thinks it’s the Mormon church which has brought about my self-hatred, I’d just like to say, you don’t know the whole story by any stretch of the imagination.
Yet even being abused as a child has not been the sole cause of my self-hatred. I hate myself for the innocents I myself have abused. I think that I am evil and a monster, and I will not pretend to be anything else from now on. Good-bye.
I know you and I haven’t conversed an awful lot on these boards. I do know that when we did, I was usually anything but supportive of your views. It is entirely possible that my words even offended you at times.
Having said that, I have always considered you a very intelligent guy, whose posts I enjoy reading. I am very sorry that experiences in your childhood have led you to being the man you are now. I sincerely hope you find a way, any way, that will help you resolve these issues. Admitting to the cause of your problems right here on these boards tells me that you are willing to seek a solution.
I am sure that you can, and will be, the man you want to be - in religion, sexuality, and at ease with your turbulant past. Good luck, and strength, is what I hope you encounter.
Snark, I read your message and have come back several times over the past couple of hours, hoping that at least one of the hundreds of Dopers with with more mental muscle than me would find the right thing to say. Thankfully, one did.
I’ve never read anything more painful than this, ever.
Based on everything I’ve seen, I would call you a bit of a drama queen, but I’ve seen absolutely nothing that would make me think of you as “evil” or a “monster.”
To paraphrase something I said earlier today in a different thread: Short of physical assault, no evil that you do–or even the good that you do–matters all that much in the long run. Individually, we don’t have nearly as much influence on other people’s lives as we would like to think. In fact I consider you a bit of a genuine “innocent” yourself. So lighten up on yourself a bit. Quit beating up on yourself.
From the song “Althea”:
“…Ain’t nobody messin’ with you but you;
Your friends are getting most concerned…”
You are not evil. Love yourself and the rest will fall into place with you being happy. It will take a while but it will work out eventually.
If LDS doesn’t care about sexuality, then come out. Go to the temple and tell everyone that you are gay. Tell them if any of them want to go out on a date with you then send you an email or call. Since your father is a preacher whoever wants to get a hold of you should have no problem. If however you are now lying about what LDS thinks (since I know many gay LDS people who have been excommunicated because they were gay and of a couple different ex-LDS gay groups in the area, I know this is not the case) then you will have to come to grips with who you are and then be able to pursue a life that is actually meaningful to yourself. You may never have a boyfriend but at least the weight of the constant lie will be off your back. Every gay person has to deal with those type of issues on their own. Some of us (like me) managed to get through it earlier than others (like my friend Dick whom I sang in a gay men’s chorus with who didn’t come out of the closet until he was 62).
You are not a monster. A monster does not feel himself to be a monster. You may be troubled, but evil? Stop being so hard on yourself! I’d venture to say that everyone has done things they regret. This does not make one a monster. And you are not evil if you learn and grow.
As to Mormons not hating homosexuals; I have seen no evidence of Mormons’ acceptance of homosexuality. How many openly gay Mormons attend your church? Any? They just word their hatred in such a way that it sounds like love, but it is still hatred. When you learn to love yourself, you will realize this. There is a problem with being a gay Mormon. I don’t see how you can deny this.
There are some things you can change and some you cannot.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
I wish you all the best on your journey through life. I hope your “Goodbye” was “Goodbye for now”. Don’t let your last post be your very last post. Please know that we do care about you and it hurts to see you hurting so.
Snark, please, please, please tell me that this is just more self-hating hyperbole. If you have been abusing children, you need to turn yourself in to the authorities NOW! I really hope that you did not mean to write those words.
Goboy, I missed that part of his post. I agree, if you are abusing children then you should turn yourself in to the police. Children + Sex doesn’t equal consent thus it is wrong. However, if this is a misread (I can’t quite see it now) then you should go to the police and say what you did. It may not be a good time originally for you but in the end you will be able to be more open and honest with yourself.
Get help. I still have Terry’s email for you.
Sqrl
I assume that that particular statement (about abuse of innocents) referred back to the first line of the post: “This is something I feel I have to say due to all of the homosexual bashing I’ve been doing on this board.” As you initially suggested in your own post, I think it was just a bit of hyperbole. I assume that his statement about abuse of innocents was just a high-flown way of acknowledging any damage that his gaybashing on this message board might have caused.
Of course, if your other interpretation is correct and Snark was referring to molesting others in some manner, then Snark ought to at least get in to see a good counselor for starters.
But if that statement was merely hyperbole serving as a sort of mea culpa to the people here on the board, then I think Snark ought to stop with the self-abuse and move on. I don’t see that he did any particular harm to anyone here. I don’t think for the most part that people were particularly upset in their return posts; mainly they were just trying to save Snark from his own stupidity.
Incidentally, Snark made reference to abuse he himself suffered as a child. I haven’t been around on the SDMB long enough to know if this has already come up in his older posts. He should probably see a counselor for this, if he hasn’t already done so. That kind of trauma can run pretty deep, and he probably hasn’t dealt with it himself as effectively as he could with professional help.
Anyway, Goboy, it’s probably good that you brought up that interpretation of his message. It’s problematic and should be addressed. That was a pretty ambiguous message that Snark left us with.
Well, this is the first I’ve ever heard of it. I didn’t know.
As to his abuse of innocents, he’s told me mnay times that he used to bully his younger siblings; I think thats what he means.
I ignored his remark about “the innocents I myself have abused” because I assumed, as JTR did, that he meant that he had offended posters here. If that’s what he meant, then I’ll say “No harm done, forget it.”
I lumped that phrase together with his “I am evil and a monster” as hyperbole. I fervently hope I am correct in this interpretation.
Vanilla is correct. I have never sexually molested anyone, but the bullying I did as a child and teenager to my siblings and their friends is inexcusable. Their physical and verbal abuse is on my hands.
I didn’t want to answer again–I wanted to make a clean break here with the SDMB–but I am forced to answer to avoid having someone call the authorities on me for things I haven’t done.
Now please let me go from this board. I need to get on with my life, no matter what has happened in the past, and this board is taking my precious time away from me and wasting it. I suppose I’ll have to come back and answer any further accusations, but if not, I’d just like to leave quietly. Thanks.
Umm, Snark, nobody is making you come here. If you don’t want to post here or have your your precious time taken away, erase the SDMB URL from your location bar and your cache. The decision is up to you, don’t blame others for your weak will.
And I am very glad to hear that I was worried over nothing. You have eased my mind considerably.
For what it’s worth, Snark, siblings always bully each other. That’s just the way kids interact. Kids are brutal to each other–it’s the law of the jungle until they become old enough to be properly civilized.
I have six brothers and sisters myself. I caught a lot of bullying from the older one and passed it on down with interest to the younger ones. That’s just life.
Thanks for clearing things up. “Their physical and verbal abuse is on my hands.” Sheesh. You make it sound like their blood is on your hands. No harm done, move on.
You are neither evil nor a monster. Advice above has mentioned that you need to learn to love yourself. I know that is easier said than done, but you can make a start.
None of us can undo the deeds we regret. One of the first steps is to accept that no amount of weeping and wailing will change the past. Our influence is limited to the present and future. Make amends where you can, and learn to let go of the rest. People of character are often more capable of forgiveness than we have any right to expect. Accept forgiveness where it is offered. Your own character will be enhanced and your spirit will be nourished by it.
It is obvious that you are in great pain over these issues in your life.
The responses to you have been exactly what I would expect from people that care about you just as you stand, all of us the all too imperfect human beings inhabiting this speck of space.
We’re a lot of things on this board but we’re not equipped to offer you the resources, the guidance, or help that you truly need. It’s not what we do here, it’s not what we’re about. Please tell me you’ll talk to your doctor, your therapist . . . if you don’t have one, tell me you’ll get one.
There’s sources of assistance, both on and offline, some of them as close as your phone book and a phone call away. Every county has a department of health and can often refer you to someone, a doctor, a therapist, a group.
Gee, when Sqrl, Satan, and TubaDiva agree on something, you really need to buy it.
Bill, God loves you. Just as you are. Not “because you’re going to change yourself” or anything. The man you are today. And so do a lot of the rest of us.
God forgives that which is indeed truly wrong and repented of. He does not condemn what cannot be helped. And remember that He walked the Earth as a man a few years ago: He knows what we go through, and cares, and understands. Sometimes His hardest job is getting us to forgive ourselves.
I can sympathize with the guilt trip you have put yourself on. I was there, for slightly different reasons but the same sort of “God must despise me; after all, I despise myself” feeling. And I don’t have any magical cure for it --except to remind you of His love, and the love of your fellow man.
You need to level with your therapists about the emotional trauma you’ve expressed here, and (presuming you are medicinally stabilized) get your medication adjusted. If you don’t feel you can level with your therapists, have your parents get you to new therapists that you can talk this through with.
Beyond that, what TubaDiva said. Get help, beyond this board. Because you’re a very precious person in God’s sight, and in mine and a bunch of other people who’ve come to know you through this board and others. And we will need your insights in days to come. Nobody else has been where you’ve been and felt what you’ve felt. That makes you someone very valuable to all of us. And you have your own special role to fill in God’s plan.
Snark… please see a counsellor. NOT one from your church, but a professional psychologist. What you’re doing right now is just the latest loop of this cycle. You’ve done it so many times before that it’s getting hard to say the same comforting htings to you over and over… you post some self-loathing and swear you’re leaving… then later you return… etc… you’ve done it countless times in the past… the OP of this thread could have been the OP of threads I’ve read by you over the years. What that says to me is that you’re stuck. You need help to move past the rut you keep circling in. PLEASE go get help.
