So are this kid's parents going to kill her, or what?

[Rubystreak]

@mswas

Rubystreak Learn to fucking read. That’s all I have to say to you on this.

Please, God or Allah or FSM, let this be true!

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@mswas

Yes, as a plethora of posters on the dope are evidence of, of course you don’t dismiss their hate of Christianity you commiserate with it.

Cite? Show me one single post where I’ve ever commiserated with anyone’s “hate of Christianity?”

You don’t call them brainwashed atheists, you call them liberated free-thinkers.

“Brainwashed atheist” is an oxymoron. Atheism isn’t an ideology or a belief system. And cite for me ever using the phrase “liberated free-thinker” or anything similar to it?

Ok, fair enough. But just because they hate Islam doesn’t mean that this girl doesn’t have real reasons to fear her Father. You’re assuming that she hates Islam because she joined this church. Maybe she joined this church because she hates Islam.

Fair enough. But why would she join that church?

I don’t know the answer to these questions, but I know that the answer doesn’t have to be that her parents want to kill her.

Or it could explain why you bash Christians on this forum pretty much any chance you get.

Cite for me ever bashing Christians? Show me a single post where I’ve ever done that.

[mswas]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

Cite? Show me one single post where I’ve ever commiserated with anyone’s “hate of Christianity?”

Whatever I’m not going on this hijack. It’s irrelevant to the thread.

“Brainwashed atheist” is an oxymoron. Atheism isn’t an ideology or a belief system. And cite for me ever using the phrase “liberated free-thinker” or anything similar to it?

:rolleyes:

I don’t know the answer to these questions, but I know that the answer doesn’t have to be that her parents want to kill her.

You KNOW huh? And how do you KNOW this?

[treis]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

This isn’t the Pit. Could you please be specific as to what I’ve said that’s crazy?

This is my particular favorite:

@Diogenes the Cynic

The husband probably just wants to molest the kid.

[Rubystreak]

@treis

This is my particular favorite:

Did you miss where he was parodying the assumptions being made about the girl’s parents, based only on their religion and some unproven allegations? He wasn’t seriously accusing anyone of molesting the girl. However, their relationship with her was both extralegal and inappropriate, so questions should be asked about it, just as questions are going to be asked about her parents’ behavior.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@mswas

Well she’s 17 years old, I think she should be able to leave her parents custody if she wants to first of all.

You can think that all you want. The law says otherwise. You really think it’s appropriate for a couple to harbor an underaged runaway for three weeks without telling authorities? Should the law just be ignored?

At least 5% of the population.

That’s a ridiculous standard. Less than 5% of the population has ever bought a Garth Brooks album. Does that mean it’s not common to own a Garth Brooks album?

Do you even have a short term memory at all? You made a claim that your parents were not a threat to your Brother’s life, and I asked you if he ever claimed that they were and your answer was no. Please even if you can’t remember what I write, try to remember what YOU write.

So lets see what the applicability of your story is.

1. Did your Brother run away from home as a teenager to join this cult?
2. Did he claim that it was because of something that your parents did?

If so, what does your Brother’s experience have in common with this situation other than there is a religious community involved in both instances?

I don’t understand what you’re trying to get at. I didn’t say my brother’s experience had anything in common with this one. I used him as a counterpoint to your own assertion that people from healthy families don’t join cults. They do.

Generally if people are joining a cult it’s because something is missing in their lives. It might just be that they want to live closely with a tight-knit community, believe me I can relate, and that’s the pretty common reason when people are adults. When they run away as children and claim their parents will kill them, well that’s a different kettle of fish entirely.

The cult is making the claims that the parents will kill her. There is no evidence that she ever made that claim before joining the cult, and even her own claims are pretty thin if you really parse them out. She has not said that they’ve explicitly said they will kill her, as far as I can see.

[davidw]

@mswas

Fair enough. But why would she join that church?

@Diogenes the Cynic

I don’t know the answer to these questions, but I know that the answer doesn’t have to be that her parents want to kill her.

@mswas

You KNOW huh? And how do you KNOW this?

mswas, you may want to re-read that sentence. I think it’s pretty self-evidently true that there could be answers that don’t involve her parents wanting to kill her.

[magellan01]

From a 2008 article:

@Boston Globe

But while honor killings may be more prevalent in the Middle East, no longer are they unknown in the West.

In the Atlanta suburb of Jonesboro last month, a Pakistani immigrant allegedly strangled his 25-year-old daughter with a bungee cord because she was determined to end her arranged marriage and had gotten involved with a new man. According to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Sandeela Kanwal’s father, Chaudhry Rashid, “told police he is Muslim and that extramarital affairs and divorce are against his religion [and] that’s why he killed her.” In court last week, a detective quoted Rashid: “God will protect me. God is watching me. I strangled my daughter.”

In Upstate New York a few weeks earlier, Waheed Allah Mohammad, an immigrant from Afghanistan, was charged with attempted murder after repeatedly stabbing his 19-year-old sister. The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported that Mohammad was “infuriated because his younger sister was going to clubs, wearing immodest clothing, and planning to leave her family for a new life in New York City” - she was a “bad Muslim girl,” he told sheriff’s investigators.

On New Year’s Day in Irving, Texas, the bullet-riddled bodies of the Said sisters - Sarah, 17, and Amina, 18 - were found in an abandoned taxi. Police issued an arrest warrant for their father, an Egyptian immigrant named Yaser Abdel Said, who had reportedly threatened to kill them upon learning that they had boyfriends. According to the Dallas Morning News, Yaser Said was given to “gun-waving rants about how Western culture was corrupting the chastity of his daughters.”

While many authorities say that Islamic religious tradition does not sanction honor killing, it has long been accepted in many Muslim societies all the same. Perpetrators are typically punished lightly, if at all. In 2003, Jordan’s parliament overwhelmingly defeated a proposal to impose harsher penalties for honor killings; Islamists objected on the grounds that more severe punishment would violate religious traditions and damage Jordanian society. It is appalling that such lethally barbaric attitudes persist anywhere - all the more so now that the shame of honor killing has made its way here.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@treis

This is my particular favorite:

That’s it? That was just sarcasm, as I explained in a later post. Anything else?

[mswas]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

You can think that all you want. The law says otherwise. You really think it’s appropriate for a couple to harbor an underaged runaway for three weeks without telling authorities? Should the law just be ignored?

No. I do not think that. They should’ve notified the authorities immediately.

That’s a ridiculous standard. Less than 5% of the population has ever bought a Garth Brooks album. Does that mean it’s not common to own a Garth Brooks album?

How would you define common then?

I don’t understand what you’re trying to get at. I didn’t say my brother’s experience had anything in common with this one. I used him as a counterpoint to your own assertion that people from healthy families don’t join cults. They do.

Did he run away from home as a teenager?

The cult is making the claims that the parents will kill her. There is no evidence that she ever made that claim before joining the cult, and even her own claims are pretty thin if you really parse them out. She has not said that they’ve explicitly said they will kill her, as far as I can see.

Right, Christian mind-control magicks.

@davidw

mswas, you may want to re-read that sentence. I think it’s pretty self-evidently true that there could be answers that don’t involve her parents wanting to kill her.

You’re right, I didn’t parse that sentence well.

[mswas]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

That’s it? That was just sarcasm, as I explained in a later post. Anything else?

How do you consider that anything but poisoning the well? I believe you were probably being sarcastic, but it’s telling that this sort of comment is ok to make against Christians but if you said that a Rabbi probably just wanted to steal her kidneys or a Muslim just wanted to make her his second wife, you’d probably be one of the first to say it was not halal/kosher.

[Sam_Stone]

Canada has had 12 documented cases of honor killing in the past few years.

There are also good reasons to believe that many honor killings are not identified as such because either the investigators are unfamiliar with them, or political correctness leads people away from describing a murder as an honor killing, or because they are misidentified as normal crimes of jealousy or depression.

By the way, the 5,000 honor killings per year stat comes from the United Nations, not some Islamophobic group.

Equating this to Christian stonings is simply ridiculous.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@mswas

Whatever I’m not going on this hijack. It’s irrelevant to the thread.

Do you retract it? I don’t appreciate false accusations.

You KNOW huh? And how do you KNOW this?

Are you serious? Are you saying that she could ONLY have left because her parents want to kill her? Are you saying that YOU know that’s the only possibility? Maybe you should read what I said again, with a key word bolded:

@me

I know that the answer doesn’t have to be that her parents want to kill her.

Do you actually disagree with that statement?

[treis]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

That’s it? That was just sarcasm, as I explained in a later post. Anything else?

Uh hu, just sarcasm. Fine, here’s my second favorite:

@Diogenes the Cynic

It wouldn’t be hard for Fox News and wingnut radio to whip up enough hysteria and rage to cause a mob of Cletuses with shotguns and gas cans to show up at this poor family’s house.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Sam_Stone

Canada has had 12 documented cases of honor killing in the past few years.

There are also good reasons to believe that many honor killings are not identified as such because either the investigators are unfamiliar with them, or political correctness leads people away from describing a murder as an honor killing, or because they are misidentified as normal crimes of jealousy or depression.

By the way, the 5,000 honor killings per year stat comes from the United Nations, not some Islamophobic group.

Equating this to Christian stonings is simply ridiculous.

I’m equating it to Christians blowing up abortion clinics, shooting doctors and beating gay people with baseball bats.

As we’ve seen, “honor killings” in the US are extremely rare – much more rare than kids being ass-fucked by clergy, for example, or women being raised on sex farms and sold as chattel by polygamous Christians.

I also suspect that these so-called “honor killings” are mostly just run-of-the-mill crimes of jealously and mental illness being sensationalized as “religious” by the media.

They’re also incredibly rare on a statistical level.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@treis

Uh hu, just sarcasm. Fine, here’s my second favorite:

You really think that’s crazy? Fox News has already notched one doctor this year. I’d be willing to bet these parents are already getting death threats.

[Labrador_Deceiver]

@Rubystreak

Really? Because I won’t allow you to tell me how to think because of your pre-conceived ideas of what a teacher should think, therefore I am JUST LIKE a cop who said it’s OK to beat your kids. Do you listen to yourself? There is no reason for you to make ad hominem attacks like this, and I really wish you wouldn’t start down this road again with me. I disagree with you. This does not mean I condone child abuse. Worst debating tactic EVER.

Agreed. That little piece of garbage that mswas decided to throw out there is so mind-numbingly stupid that it should be laughed at.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@mswas

How do you consider that anything but poisoning the well? I believe you were probably being sarcastic, but it’s telling that this sort of comment is ok to make against Christians but if you said that a Rabbi probably just wanted to steal her kidneys or a Muslim just wanted to make her his second wife, you’d probably be one of the first to say it was not halal/kosher.

I wasn’t making a statement about Christians, I was making a statement about hysterical religious profiling. The same is true of other statements I’ve made about Christians blowing up abortion clinics, etc. I’m not saying that to bash Christians, I’m using thsoe examples to show that it’s ridiculous to make assumptions about the whole based on the behavior of an extreme minority of nutters and violent bigots.

[tomndebb]

The topic of honor killings is being seriously abused in this thread.

There are honor killings in a large number of cultures, many of them Christian. They generally have a lot more to do with either sexual mores or stepping outside cultural boundaries than they do with actual religious belief. Keep that in mind when anyone posts statistics showing how “common” they are and then failing to note where they occur throughout the world or the events that give rise to them.

[Maastricht]

I have absolutely no idea if this kid speaks the truth.

All I’ve got to add are a few numbers about honor killings in Islamic minorities in the Netherlands, so, in a modern Western country, pop 17 million. It has been enough of an issue here for police to gather that info.

Between Oct 2004 and march 2005, there were 79 cases of family-honor related trouble involving the Dutch police. Eleven of those ended with the victim (mostly women, sometimes men) dead. 26 cases involved physical violence, and in about 30 cases people were threatened with violence or otherwise pressured.

Of the 79 cases, 43 percent invoveld Turkish families. The other cases were Afghan, Kosovan, Iraqi, Moroccan, Colombian and Antillian families.

A dutch chief of police in our capital said that about 15 honor-killings are prevented each year by timely intervention by the police.