Hey, I LIKE that…
Not perzackly, younger brother, and that’s the nub of what I think you’re missing. It is not a “left-wing” issue. Its a “wrong!” issue. I hammer on it not for special advantage, but because it is desperately important. (And, maybe, as I am a man of my time, I still vaguely smell tear gas in the air…) That is also why it has been discussed so much.
People who are posting haven’t necessarily changed thier political pursuasions, I frankly doubt very many have. I apply my thought, as do you, to individual issues and determine my stance accordingly.
Your shift in opinion is admirable, I celebrate it and congratulate you on it, and have said so more than once. But you haven’t adopted a “left wing” position, you’ve simply acknowledged that facts of the matter. Myself, I’m on the conservative wing of the extreme left, but if I tell you that dangling your testicles in front of a snapping turtle is a really bad idea, that’s not a “left wing” position.
Now, if we get around to talking serious political philosophy, like the relative value of property rights and the collective nature of economic justice then I’ll share some of the genuine vintage (I’ve got a '97 Bukharin you’ll just hate…)
To sum up: if you think the board has a left wing slant primarily because it has evolved to largely oppose the Bushiviks Excrement Adventure, you’re probably wrong. Further, it wouldn’t be if more honest conservatives had gotten on board earlier. It ought to be a bi-partisan issue, if it’s not, it sure as hell isn’t my fault.
(NOTE: its just plain bizarre, and I can’t account for it, but this is one of the more insightful, intelligent and humane threads I’ve seen in quite a while, but from the title and OP it sure looked like trainwreck meat. Its all very strange…)
Ok, compare and contrast end of Clinton administration (since I was a student until May 1999) and now, in the last year of Bush’s administration.
1999: Considered temping because I couldn’t find a better job; volunteered with AmeriCorps*VISTA for a year instead, with a princely living stipend of $721/month
2004: Still temping (though I did have a better job for a while. It was axed because of the state’s education funding crisis… )
1999: Health care “coverage” which didn’t have any providers in a tri-state area so if you did require medical attention, the ER was your only option- which you were expected to pay for out of pocket and wait for reimbursement. This was a government policy for VISTAs, cool, huh?
2004: No health care coverage
1999: $27,000 in student loan debt
2004: $19,000 in student loan debt
Conclusion: Same shit, different president.
<hijack> You mean Nightmayor Murphy who pays $3 a day for parking while others are expected to shell out $160 a month for the privilege? </hijack>
Airman Doors:
I really would have preferred to be left out of this mess, but I have to object to this mischaracterization.
I have often conceded error, and have no problem doing so.
See!
Sorry, Scylla, I just couldn’t resist doing that.
It’s kind of like The Planet of The Apes, or Paradise Lost
In the beginning when ignorance was being fought, the ignorant lefties flocked to this board to be educated and fulfilled at the feet of their rightful superiors, the Righties. It was like the Garden of Eden, and yea! Much ignorance was fought.
The Righties were wise and kind and gentle. They were benevolent and thoughtful with their lesser man, the ugly and stupid Lefties.
The Righties spake unto the Lefties did partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of Skepticism.
The Righties spake some more and the Lefties did partake of logic, and the Logical fallacies that they might recognize truth.
The Righties being wise and kind and benevolent they assumed that the Lefties would use such knowledge as they had used their knowledge, for the benefit of all.
But the green apples of truth and the sour cherries of fairness did not stomach well with the Lefties, and they did soil themselves with the shits and the squats and the runs of the fould diarhea of knee-jerk partisanship.
And yea, they soiled the garden so that one could hardly walk without stepping it.
When the Righties pointed this out, the Lefties hurled the fruit of the tree of Fallacies at the Righties, and proclaimed that there shit did not stink, and that the diarhea would fertilize a new left-leaning plant.
But Yea, no Left leaning Tree of Wisdom could take purchase in the fetid sea of shit the garden had become. This made the Lefties angry so they cut down all the trees of knowledge so that no one could partake and then like monkeys taking over the zoo, they drove the Righties away by hurling their feces at them.
In spite of this, great is the love of the Righties for the truth. A few of us stayed. We seek to clean the garden in the hopes that one day it may bear fruit.
And that’s how it happened.
The future is our only hope. I will never be ashamed to say I am an American.
This is the thing that really gets to me. MY life is fine under Bush therefore he is a good president. Some people like to think of how others are affected by the president’s actions, and find it disgusting that he used faulty inteligence to go to war and cause the deaths of many US and Iraqi soldiers, and a whole bunch of civilians. Many people don’t like him because they believe he makes the world a worse place, even if he makes their lives better, because in their system of morals other people matter to them as well. I don’t know if I can get this across to you because you don’t seem to understand how a lot of people can care about the welfare of those they don’t even know.
I’m not trying to provide evidence that he is a bad president/person, I’m just telling you that some people measure the quality of a president in a different way to you. Additionally I’m not saying he’s a nazi, just that (IMO) he’s a world class dickhead.
How many members does this board have? At the moment…44,180. How many are actually partisan one way or the other in their posts? Less than 100 I’d bet.
Not only does this board not lean…it’s set in concrete.
My life has turned to shit since Bush was appointed president, but that’s mainly due to the economy nose-diving, which I don’t particulary blame Bush for.
I have to say I’m far worse off than I was before though. The country certainly isn’t better off than it was before he was president.
But even if it was better, I disagree with Bush on most issues, so he wouldn’t have my vote anyway. I vote mainly on issues.
I was telling a friend this afternoon:
I’m afraid of our government and its power. I’m much more of a cynic than I was four years ago. I don’t know if this is due to the fact that I’m older, I’ve been exposed to politics on the SDMB, or if it’s just really hard to ignore the obvious badness of the current adminstration, but whatever it is…it sucks.
I feel like I’ve aged more than four years.
Financially, I’m doing better, but is this because of Bush? No. Some things happen to us simply because of luck or lack thereof (I hope I can remember this if my job search continues to flounder). I’m not about to sing the praises of Bush just because I got a raise in my fellowship.
However, I do know that funding opportunities for researchers in environmental science have been cut with dramatic reductions in programs like EPA’s STAR Fellowships.
Amen, brother!
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again: I really dislike the whole “this board leans left”/“this board leans right” bullshit. But if you look at the US/Canadian posters here, there are few (if any) of the “tighty righties” participating, while there are quite a few “losey lefties”. There is a disproportionate number of libertarian types*, and if you lump them (us) into the “righty” category, then you could probably say it pretty much balances out. Although speaking as one of those latter types, I don’t mind being calling not-left, but I dislike being categorized as right (in the political sense, that is 
).
*Sam Stone, for example, would never be considered a “righty” in the real world. He’d be a few inches away from being a Lib.
Sam Stone must live a few inches away from the Montana border, if you ask me, but I like his opinions as I like yours, John Mace (and yours too, Scylla). All of you have a wide-ranging view of the political landscape, and sometimes I get to see what you see. We don’t have to agree; I just have to understand your point of view. All of you regularly give cogent viewpoints which tend to cut through the blubber of political discourse, which is daily growing thicker on all sides of the whale.
Your views are appreciated–by me at least. If you were as full of methane as the gasbag who started this thread I wouldn’t bother to say it.
By God, that’s it, John-Boy! You’ve hit on it! Its not too many right-wingers or lefties, its too damn many Libertarians! At last, something to form a firm, bi-partisan concensus around!
Let’s get 'em!!
And thank you for the compliment and the fantastic post. You pretty much destroyed duffer’s whole argument with it as evidenced with his one line “reply”. Ok, C3’s post pretty much summed up yours in 3 lines, but yours was incredibly well written and had a personal slant on it too. Good job!
I’d just like to say that Bush has actually done something good for me personally. His warmongering showed Tony Blair up for the lying sack of crap that he is, spurring the Tories to bring in a leader who seems to be able to debunk him at every turn and bringing about his lowest ever approval rating. Hopefully he and his corrupt government will be voted out at the next opportunity. If this happens, then I can only see the quality of life for all of my family and friends back home improving.
Of course this doesn’t really help cancel out all the lying, cronyism and reductions in freedom that has affected the lives of the Americans here so much.
It appears to me that whatever negative effects this administration has had on our lives aren’t admissible because Bush isn’t responsible for them. It was someone else ie: congress, Clinton, S.Court, Santa Claus, somebody else.
Any bad things HE is known to be responsible for aren’t allowed by the OP. ie: warmongering, deception, desertion etc…
Any positive aspects are definitely BECAUSE of Bush…
Got yourself a fine little tautology there I’d say.
- It’s apparently not Bush’s fault my health insurance cancelled because my wife and daughter have pre-existing conditions. (had it before Bush)
- It’s apparently NOT his fault that my wife is ineligible for disability despite having MD and is not physically able to work.
- …not his fault that local employment rates have increased and the number of jobs has decreased even faster (businesses shutting down around here everyday)
4)…not his fault that I have to walk a fucking mile every time I go to the airport or any Federal building due to parking regulations
5)…not his fault that when MY FUCKING JOB was terminated because of cutbacks…unemployment wouldn’t pay me a fucking dime because my last job teaching didn’t qualify for unemployment benefits and the 10’s of 1000’s of $$$ I’d paid in previous jobs aren’t applicable.
6)…not his fault that I’ve been to three fucking military funerals this year (two friends and a member of MY family)
7)…I could do this for a while, but none of it would be his fault anyway. So why bother?
As far as the moral/ethical questions and ties with Nazis goes. Are you claiming that the Bush family has NO history of dealing with Nazis?
How about the Bin Ladens? Does the Bush family have NO history of deals with them in the past? Seems like I recall a business venture gone foul between GW and Osama’s brother several years ago? Before Osama’s brother died in that plane crash while visiting in Texas. You do remember that, don’t you?
What affect these events may have caused upon US as individuals is difficult to measure. (Like maybe starting a couple of wars or three) As a whole, it has at the very least, caused many of us to fear the actions of our President as much, or even more so than our so-called “enemies”. Many nations that once had respect the US, now look at us with less respect for sure. That may not bother you. But it does bother some of us.
I’d much rather he got caught fucking the secretary instead of the whole world. He’s a liar, a cheat, a thief and a deserter. That’s just my opinion though, well maybe not just mine. More like half of this country and most of the rest of the world.
I’m glad this is a pit thread. It’s good to vent once in awhile.
A Nazi? No. I don’t think he’s intelligent enough to be a Nazi. I think he’s like a lot of rich boys I’ve known, gliding through life on their Papa’s patronage. I’ve heard it said a million times, but I’ll repeat it again. He was born on third base and thinks he hit a home run. However, I think he’s easily molded and shaped by a cadre of rich men with their own interests at heart.
Onward. How is my life worse than it was when he was elected?
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Any career prospects in the field I worked in—computers—have been shot to hell for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, I can’t support myself on $4,000 a year and have no desire to move to Bangalore, so I’ve had to seek greener pastures.
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Do I feel safer on a plane? No, I do not. Almost every week, there’s a story about someone sneaking weapons through or getting a bomb on a plane. We’re fighting the last war, as we always do and always have. If there’s a group motivated enough, they’ll get through, and it’ll happen again.
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In the mean time, flying has become a hassle at its best. I used to look forward to flying. Now I avoid it whenever possible.
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Not to get off on a rant, but this economy was booming under Clinton and it’s in the shitter under Bush. I mean, woo, I may save $300. It doesn’t offset the fact that it’s just about impossible to find a job at the moment. $300 isn’t gonna pay the rent, especially since I don’t think I actually got it. I’m fortunate, because I’m in college at the moment after some years in the working world, but thousands of people aren’t fortunate and, unlike some people, I actually give a shit about what happens to others. Because ultimately, thousands of out of work people will affect me in some way. Maybe I have to pay more for social services or maybe my real-world wages go down or maybe I compete with thousands for a mediocre job. I’d trade that $300 for the quality of life I had under Bill Clinton in a split-fucking-second.
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And didja ever notice that when news of possible job news comes out, people trumpet Bush’s policies, but when 8-fucking-years-of-mostly-peace-and-prosperity under Bill Clinton come up, they’ll piously intone “The President Has No Control Over The Economy?” What the fuck is with some people?
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Sorry, not answering the question. Well, personally, it’s affected my life because a couple of my friends had to spend some time getting shot at, are currently getting shot at, or face a future prospect of getting shot at because Bush just had to have his fucking war. It pisses me off that people I know may be killed because some rich assholes and idealogues just couldn’t stand Saddam Hussein’s mustache. I guess it doesn’t affect me directly, but I care about my friends, you know? In fact, the reason I was against the war in the first place was because I weighed the value of the life of just ONE of the fine young people I know serving overseas versus the value of maybe possibly finding some rusty old drums that in all probability weren’t there and turned out not to be.
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And I know it’s selfish, but I still have 3 years left in my draft eligibility and eventually these commitments are going to be too much. I know the Pentagon says it doesn’t want conscription, but the Pentagon doesn’t always have a lot of choice in what it gets. I don’t want to go shoot brown men with beards cause George W. Bush’s advisors got hardons just thinking about invading Iraq. So I’m a little worried about my own ass, yea.
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And don’t give me that human rights shit, either. The human rights shit came in after Bush’s nuts were on the fire. It’s amazing the concern for human rights some people show when all their other shit has been proven wrong. If you’d been with the human rights crowd from the start, I would’ve been behind you. But you were with the Saddam=Hitler=giving weapons to Osama crowd and it’s only AFTER the WMDs didn’t show up that you changed to the concern for human rights, you cowardly sons-of-bitches. You all had big, swining brass balls when it came to invading for WMDs and then your shining concern for humanity came through only when your boy was shown to be a big fucking liar. Faulty intelligence, my ass. We have satellites that can peer through walls, we have the head of the inspectors telling us nothing was there, the rest of the world telling us to wait, and we storm in anyway. Picking an idea and ignoring all evidence to the contrary isn’t the CIA’s fault. Besides, Hitler my ass. Hiter had command of a well-trained, sizable modern army. He managed to kick ass and take names for a number of years. Saddam had command of a well-trained, sizable modern army and did nothing but get his ass handed to him time and time again. Comparing a tinpot desert tyrant to the greatest mass murderer in recent history is stretching it quite a bit. Besides, pretending we’re some great crusaders against ee-vil is hysterical. We’ve routinely only gotten involved when our asses are on the line. We pretend WWII was some great crusade on behalf of all humanity, but really, the Japanese kicked us and we got pissed off.
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And you know, for all the money and lives we spent over there (Iraq, I mean), it’s not going to do one bit of good. The people still hate us—and probably hate us more. Where’s Osama? Why didn’t you hunt down the guy who planned it before you wasted my tax dollars going after the guy with the bad mustache? So we either spend years in Iraq making things right and getting hundreds of our soldiers—my friends, some of em—killed, or we back out now, admit we wasted all that time and money, and accomplish nothing.
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What really pisses me off is being lied to. Saddam is an asshole? That I can get behind. WMDs-ready-to-strike-in-45-minutes-that-aren’t? Like hell. Catch the guy who planned 9/11, then tell me about something else.
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Not to get back on jobs, but well, jobs. The way jobs are flying offshore is ridiculous. Don’t tell me Bush isn’t well-connected enough to call up a few boys and say, “Hey, quit offshoring my voters.” Please. When “Kenny Boy” Lay can get invited to the White House, I think Mr. President can do something about offshoring, if he wasn’t lining his pocket with phat cash from his corporate overlords.
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So my prospects are the future are considerably dimmer. Oh, sure, I save a few percentage points on taxes now, but we’ve got a bunch of people who still hate us around the world, we’ve got people I know and care about in a foreign country getting killed in my name, we’ve got jobs leaving at a breakneck pace, my taxes in the future are probably going to be higher to pay for all this crap, especially the lunatic Mission To Mars Crap.
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And it’s not even like he’s made the world a better, safer place for Americans. We killed some guys with beards, but the head honcho is still there, we’re breeding more in the Middle East at the moment, we’re shipping our jobs overseas at a breakneak pace, our children are being standardized tested instead of educated, we’re wasting billions on missions to mars and missile defense while health insurance premiums skyrocket out of control, our government is seeking to hold people without trial or counsel under some pulled-out-of-their-ass-enemy combatant thing, the environment is being screwed over royally while the administration and their ilk piously intone about “junk science,” thousands of people are being imprisoned for a “drug war” that’s the complete definition of a huge fucking failure, and on and on and on.
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And you know what really PISSES ME OFF ABOUT THIS?! I’M PAYING FOR IT!
But oh yea, that $300, those few points on my taxes, make it almost all worth it.