So... does Fallout 3's ending suck?

[smiling_bandit]

Srsly.

This is what I heard happens:

Dad commits suicide to take out some guards. This is good, except his chosen method involves irradiating a rom you have to cross. You are required to cross it and therefore die, ignoring the half-dozen anti-radiation options or the dude immune to radiation in your party. You complete th quest, and then die. The End.

Now, it might be a good game, but this just means that Bethesda, as always, sucks no matter how good their games are.

[Lobsang]

Yes. But completing this game would be like being driven in a car to a destination with a blindfold on. Whereas playing the game is like driving a car with no destination in mind - a helluva lot more fun.

The key is to enjoy the journey, not the destination.

[Cuckoorex]

@smiling_bandit

Srsly.

This is what I heard happens:

Dad commits suicide to take out some guards. This is good, except his chosen method involves irradiating a rom you have to cross. You are required to cross it and therefore die, ignoring the half-dozen anti-radiation options or the dude immune to radiation in your party. You complete th quest, and then die. The End.

Now, it might be a good game, but this just means that Bethesda, as always, sucks no matter how good their games are.

Not exactly…there is an option to let one other character make the sacrifice, though I agree with you that it’s moronic that there isn’t an option to have the radiation-immune characters do the final bit.

[Lobsang]

@Cuckoorex

Not exactly…there is an option to let one other character make the sacrifice, though I agree with you that it’s moronic that there isn’t an option to have the radiation-immune characters do the final bit.

The game still ends if you get the other character to make the sacrifice

[Anaamika]

I haven’t played it fully. I rented it, and then when I returned it, knowing i wouldn’t buy it for months, looked up the ending. Yeah, it’s disappointing.

This part probably doesn’t warrant a spoiler, but I loved the dad character. They really went out of their way to make him a familiar character, and to me, character interaction is at least as important as char development - and then he goes and gets killed.
I don’t agree that Bethesda sucks though. Didn’t they make Oblivion? I rather liked the ending of the “story” of Oblivion.
But Fallout 3 is an awesome game and no one says the ending has to mean the end - just beat it once, and then do everything but beat it.

[Lobsang]

@Anaamika

I haven’t played it fully. I rented it, and then when I returned it, knowing i wouldn’t buy it for months, looked up the ending. Yeah, it’s disappointing.

This part probably doesn’t warrant a spoiler, but I loved the dad character. They really went out of their way to make him a familiar character, and to me, character interaction is at least as important as char development - and then he goes and gets killed.
I don’t agree that Bethesda sucks though. Didn’t they make Oblivion? I rather liked the ending of the “story” of Oblivion.
But Fallout 3 is an awesome game and no one says the ending has to mean the end - just beat it once, and then do everything but beat it.

In response to your last sentence. That’s exactly what I did. And it IS the best way to play the game.

[Mr.Kobayashi]

Broken Steel, DLC for the PC and 360 out in March, extends the playtime past the end of the MQ regardless of which choices you make.

And I agree, the ending is stupid. The three characters who could easily go in the chamber for you; Fawkes the radiation proof super mutant, Charon the ghoul who is healed by radiation for feck’s sake, and Sergeant RL-3 who is a freaking robot all pull excuses out of their asses; Fawkes says it’s your destiny, Charon says he’s “saved your ass too many times already” (even if you’ve just acquired him) and RL-3 responds to your intelligent request by saying that you should be ashamed of yourself for not wanting to sacrifice yourself like your dad!

[smiling_bandit]

@Lobsang

Yes. But completing this game would be like being driven in a car to a destination with a blindfold on. Whereas playing the game is like driving a car with no destination in mind - a helluva lot more fun.

I am not disagreeing, but that does not mean the ending is not horribly stupid or that Bethesda is good.

They are a company with a very good idea that almost no one else is sane enough to go for. And they still cock it up, even with no competition.

[Lobsang]

Oh I don’t disagree that the ending is stupid. I just don’t want people to be discouraged by that fact. It’s one of the best games I’ve ever played.

[Mr.Kobayashi]

Mmm, agreed. Just make a save game after you get out of Raven Rock, don’t go chatting with Elder Lyons and you’re golden.

[capybara]

I could care less about the main plot–I have been having an absolute blast covering every corner of the world just exploring. Many many many many hours of entertainment, and that’s totally worth it.

[Red_Barchetta]

Good timing, Smiling Bandit. 1up.com just posted an “Afterthoughts” feature a few days ago where they ask the developers of Fallout 3 about this very issue. Here’s what they had to say:

1UP: Why are companions not an option for inputting the Project Purity code? You already have the option to have Sentinel Lyons input the code in your place. There are three viable options for an alternate to input the code: Fawkes, Sergeant RL-3N, and Charon. The player has already experienced a situation where Fawkes can enter an irradiated room and perform a task, RL-3N should follow his programming to obey you, and Charon would not only become healthier due to the radiation, but he’s established as essentially a slave who will do whatever his contract-holder orders him to do. To the player, the inability for either to input the code seems really contradictory.

Emil Pagliarulo: That’s a great question, and one that’s obviously come up quite a bit in different forums. Let me try to shed some light on why the game is like that – it’s a pretty interesting look inside the development process.

All of the followers were implemented into the game fairly late in development, after the main story had already been nailed down. So, you know, we had the scene at the end of the game, with deadly radiation, and never really compensated for the fact that you could have a Supermutant, or Ghoul, or robot, who could possibly turn the purifier on for you. We’d only ever planned for you sending Sarah Lyons into the purifier, because we knew, from a story standpoint, that she’d definitely be in there with you.

What we could do – and what we did ultimately do – is cover that stuff in dialogue. You can ask those followers to go into the purifier, and they’ll tell you why they won’t. We felt that fit with their personalities, but really, they didn’t “sell” that to the player in a single line of dialogue. So, in the end, the player’s left with a, “Huh, why the hell can’t they do it?!” sort of feeling.

So the story does kind of break down. But you know what? We knew that, and were OK with it, because the trade-off is, well, you get these cool followers to join you. You meet up with Fawkes near the end of the game, and it’s true you can go right with him to the purifier. So we could’ve not had him there as a follower, and that would’ve solved the problem of him not going into the purifier – because, at that point in development, that was the only fix we had time for. But we kept it, and players got him as a follower, and they seem to love adventuring him with. Gameplay trumped story, in that example – as I believe it should have.

So if we’d planned better, we could’ve addressed that more satisfactorily. But considering how it all went down, I feel good about the decision we made there.

More here: http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3172024

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

@capybara

I could care less about the main plot–I have been having an absolute blast covering every corner of the world just exploring. Many many many many hours of entertainment, and that’s totally worth it.

From what I’ve heard about the game, this is the correct answer.

[Mr.Kobayashi]

Sounds like it game down to a time issue, and the dialogue was the only way to solve it. Annoying, but understandable.

[grumble]Still doesn’t explain why we can’t keep playing if you give Sarah the chop, though.[/grumble]

[Skywatcher]

There are some expansions coming in the next few months, one of which picks up the story of the Capital Wasteland after the purifier is activated.

[Claptree]

@Mr.Kobayashi

[grumble]Still doesn’t explain why we can’t keep playing if you give Sarah the chop, though.[/grumble]

He answers that later in the article:

1UP: Can you discuss the decision to have the main quest end the game? Why not let the player wander the Capital Wasteland afterward?

-SNIP-

But with each of these, even if the player character doesn’t die, the game ends. We’d discussed this, and were like, “You know what? Fallout and Fallout 2 ended. We should end our game, too.” What we didn’t realize is that, largely because of Oblivion, people really expected Fallout 3 not to end! It’s something they’ve come to expect of us, and we underestimated that. You can be sure it’s a mistake we won’t repeat in the future.

Heh, and then he ends the interview with this gem:

1UP: The Capital Wasteland is full of stuff to discover and places to explore. Is there anything you think most players missed?

EP: If you listen to Galaxy News Radio, there are some radio plays on there that chronicle the adventures of Herbert “Daring” Dashwood and his stalwart Ghoul manservant, Argyle. Turns out, those radio plays were actually based on the life of one of the Capital Wasteland’s residents; you can meet the real Herbert Dashwood at Tenpenny Tower, and he asks you to find the real-life Argyle. You can find Argyle – or, um, what’s left of him – in a hidden location called Rockopolis, which is actually mentioned in a couple of the radio plays. It’s really hard to find – look near Paradise Falls at night. If you see the glow of light from behind some giant boulders, with some banners outside, you’re there. Once you find Argyle, you can go back to Tenpenny with the news, and he’ll reward you for your efforts.

Talk about misdirection - only about a third of the map off.

[Lobsang]

1UP: The Capital Wasteland is full of stuff to discover and places to explore. Is there anything you think most players missed?

EP: If you listen to Galaxy News Radio, there are some radio plays on there that chronicle the adventures of Herbert “Daring” Dashwood and his stalwart Ghoul manservant, Argyle. Turns out, those radio plays were actually based on the life of one of the Capital Wasteland’s residents; you can meet the real Herbert Dashwood at Tenpenny Tower, and he asks you to find the real-life Argyle. You can find Argyle – or, um, what’s left of him – in a hidden location called Rockopolis, which is actually mentioned in a couple of the radio plays. It’s really hard to find – look near Paradise Falls at night. If you see the glow of light from behind some giant boulders, with some banners outside, you’re there. Once you find Argyle, you can go back to Tenpenny with the news, and he’ll reward you for your efforts.

I found Argyle (while following unrelated instructions to get an alien encounter) but at this point I’d already ‘allowed’ TPT to become populated by gouls. Is Dashwood still there?

[Mr.Kobayashi]

@Lobsang

I found Argyle (while following unrelated instructions to get an alien encounter) but at this point I’d already ‘allowed’ TPT to become populated by gouls. Is Dashwood still there?

I had the same situation as you; but planned on using the console to bring him back (my character has 100 medicine; it’s an RP thing…honest) if he’d pegged it. Sadly I couldn’t find hide nor hair of him or any of the other residents, despite the references to bodies in the basement. Roy Phillips got a Rock-It launched tin can in his face and subsequently his head asplode (which gave me bad karma!) as a result.

Another character iced the ghouls, then found Argyle (Rockopolis is due west of the garage where Vault 87 is hidden, and due north of Girdershade - nowhere near Paradise Falls!), but there were no dialogue options beyond asking about the solved ghoul situation. If on the PC you could use the console to place yourself at his location, I’ve not tried it yet though.

Made me sad the first time I found Argyle, the adventures of Dashwood are the best thing on GNR. “Always with the dames!” That and Cole Porter’s Anything Goes.

[Lobsang]

My instructions for finding rockopolis were - go to smith caseys garage and then come out and go directly west. I did so and found the light coming from behind the rocks and the bit of carnival tape hanging across.

So basically just go exactly west from smith casey’s garage until you see that.

[Cuckoorex]

Funny that the developer refers to Fawkes as a “he” when it seemed pretty clear that Fawkes at least started out as a “she.”

I’m sorry, but I think that the explanation he gave as to why the various companions can’t do the end job is a cop-out. What would be required to make those endings happen? Yeah, a new ending montage/voiceover, mostly! It wouldn’t be THAT hard to animate, say, Charon walking into the chamber, then have a transition to the ending sequence. They probably could have created the other ending animations and included them in a patch pretty easily. Sure, they’d get flak for not having planned for such a possibility earlier, but at least they wouldn’t have turned the final scene into a “WTF?” moment like it is now.