Since people aren’t entitled to a job people who need stuff done that isn’t that valuable will turn to automation, foreign labor, illegal labor, under the table labor, etc.
If an option exists for low value work to be done for less than minimum wage people will take that option. How much stuff in your house is made by foreign labor that are making less than American minimum wage? Why don’t you buy stuff made exclusively by those paid a “living” wage?
I’ve never known a server who would want to be paid minimum wage or any hourly wage instead of tips.
When I worked in restaurants, tipped positions were the lucrative, competitive gigs. Even busboys, who earned minimum wage plus 15% of servers’ tips, made a lot of cash on a good night.
As a cook, I worked 7 days a week, approx 56 hours per week for years, and there were waitresses who made what I did in a week working 2 shifts.
Sure, there were some who didn’t do as well. But everyone wanted to wait tables for the chance to make tips. Otherwise, they might as well host or make salads or something.
I don’t think any business owes a person a living wage, as what constitutes a living wage varies vastly depending on a person’s circumstances. This isn’t “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”
That being said, I’ve always felt that exceptions to the minimum wage are total bullshit. Restaurants do not “have” to pay servers $2.13 per hour to stay alive, and if they do, it’s a sucky business. If minimum wage applies to all, then all businesses are competing on that particular cost on a level playing field. Minimum wage should apply to all, not just so that every employee gets a wage they can live on alone(no, you are not entitled to a family), but also to keep the minimum wage realistic. I don’t want to live in a world where employers get exceptions because they have a sob story and it’s “made up” by making better run businesses pay $15/hr.
the wage paid a worker is based on the companies ability to pay it.
if a company has trouble keeping employees long term it should investigate why- and consider raising wages. Exit interviews may help with that by hr dept.
a persons need for a higher wage is only a need and not a reason for a company to raise wages.
perhaps the worker needs to have a discussion of how profits can be increased to let him/her get a raise.
getting a raise in a dying company is only temporary or getting raises to create a bad economic situation in a company is not sustainable as a layoff is coming soon.
wages based on someone having a wife or kids is crap also- it should be based on a workers ability to produce goods and services that make profits for an employer.
If the only factor is which wage is cheaper, then the American worker is inevitably going to lose her job to those various bogeymen, regardless of whether there is a minimum wage. e.g. How can someone living in the US survive on lower wages than someone living in Vietnam?
Strange though that US unemployment remains very low. It’s almost as if price is one factor among many.
I try to do so; I boycott brands that are known to have exploitative practices.
But in general it’s too complicated to do this: If a product is stamped “Made in Bangledesh” that might give me a bad feeling, but I don’t actually know without further research whether that employer was paying a good living wage by local standards.
And of course most complex goods involve components made in various countries, do I need to check the whole supply chain?
I don’t know where you get this from, and I have a very different experience in Europe. From what’s quoted on this board and elsewhere online, I get the Impression that eating out a real Restaurant (excluding Fast Food like McD and similar) in the US is much more expensive than in Europe, and rare for Middle Class People (I see Prices of 60$ starting for a normal Restaurant).
Maybe it’s a question of different definitions: there’s a sharp difference in Europe between “I’m going to eat at McD” and “I’m going to eat at a Restaurant”; but if in the US, “going out” includes both McD and normal Restaurants, there’s a bigger Price range.
My City (Munich) is one of the three most expensive cities (cost of living) in all of Germany, but when I go to a normal, (not-chain like Pizza Hut or Bella Italia) Restaurant (often Italian because we’re Italy’s northernmost City, but also Greek or German available) I expect to pay for one main Food, e.g. Pizza, and one soft drink* for an evening, about 15 Euros average. Obviously, Dessert, two beers, one coffee will cost more. Going to a higher-price Restaurant like Vier Jahreszeiten (Four seasons) will cost a lot more. 
There are some “Kneipen” (lower-style drinking Pubs with Food) that might be a bit cheaper, but not much.
The Prices on the menu usually always spell out that gratuity for the Servers are included. It’s customary to round up to the nearest number, which usually Comes out to 10%, to Show that you are satisfied with the Service.
McD et al. demand 6 Euros upward for a single burger, btw, despite their ads about 1 Euro (which spells out 1 Euro upwards in the small print)
Your assignment for today:
Google “Jobs created during U.S. presidential terms”
Give us a report on what you learn. How did stupid job seekers fare during various Presidencies?
That should be easy — Wikipedia has an article with that name. If you can succeed on this project, we will give you slightly more difficult assignments. If you think you’re ready to move on already
Google “U.S. Union Membership and Inequality”
This problem has been addressed previously: A Modest Proposal For Preventing the Children of Poor People in Ireland, from Being a Burden on Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Publick.
I want somebody who’s treated like a decent human being, and not being exploited by Management, and has to put up with customers being clueless assholes who think that 10% tipping was okay 40 years ago, or that a Chick tract is decent, or assholes who want to exercise their power via tip by making impossible demands, or customers who don’t tip for things out of the Servers control (Food Quality, waiting time).
In Europe, tip is included in the fixed Prices, and guess what? We have most of the times good Service. That may also be connected with the fact that Waiter is an official Profession, that People apprentice for for 2-3 years, and Keep in that Job for years. It’s not demeaned as something that high School Kids (because High School Kids are not allowed to work except a bit in School Holidays) or college Kids do (University students may sometimes serve in bars or cafes)
Be honest: if all Servers lived comfortably on their tips, depending only on their ability to provide good Service, then we wouldn’t have this discussion every so often, and there wouldn’t be such a big Lobby to introduce Minimum wage.
I don’t have the references at hand, but I’ve heard several people in podcasts and news analyses saying that good tips are NOT the result of good service. Good tips go to young, white, attractive women, regardless of how well they serve food in any objective way.
And I also recently heard a report that when the first laws were made exempting certain jobs from minimum wages, they were precisely targeted at jobs that African-Americans dominated.
And the big deal chef in New York who is eliminating tipping at his high-end restaurants—forgetting his name—has said that one of his objections to the tipping system is that NY law prohibits distributing tips to back-of-the-house workers.
His restaurants are the kind that do allow food service people to make a decent living on tips, but only those who are working tables. This creates a tier system in the restaurant with mostly minority kitchen staff getting a lot less money compared to table servers. He wants to flatten that disparity and he sees banning tipping as a big way to doing that.
Some workers opposed the Maine minimum wage increase because they thought their income would go down due to customers tipping less:
Mythbusters tested that once in a coffee shop (of all places) - once a White Young woman with normal Cup size for one shift, and the next day the same woman with a Cup size inflated to double. (And a clever controlled tip jar to seperate her tips from the other workers.
With double Cup size, she got more tips.
It also lacks internal logic. If the reason for the tip is to motivate employees to give good Service - then you should not only tip the Server, but also the cook. And tip every employee of every Business. Maybe your bank advisor will give you a better Investment tip if you give him a 10% tip of the earnings? Why not give your mailman a 10% tip so he delivers your letter today (esp. if his bag is too full and he’s running late? Where does tipping stop?
I’m also surprised how in all These discussions about the Horrors of Minimum wage and how high costs the wages of employees at the bottom of the Food chain are for the Business - the costs of wages and benefits for Managers and CEOs are never ever adressed.
A lot of (conservative?) People seem to be unable to see the contradiction between believing “employees are lazy, thus not worth more wage, and the customer motivates them with tips” and “employees are the cream of the crop and deserve high wages plus benefits, since that’s the only way we can attract the best of the best of the best (even if after one year, stock Prices and or earnings have gone down, they will still get their Bonus)” at the same time, as Long as the first sentence applies to low-level (unskilled?) workers, but the second to high-Level (ivy-league educated, connected?) CEOs and Managers.
Obviously it’ll depend on where you are. But for most of America – in my experience – two people at a normal middle-class restaurant, who don’t order alcohol / appetizer / drinks, just an entree and a soda or water, eat for significantly less than $60. My girlfriend and I average closer to $25 or $30, at least before tipping.
An entree? I thought that’s a precourse, not the main dish?? I was giving the Price for a full dish, not an Appetizer.
At least in the US, “entree” is the main dish or main course.
Full meals in mid-level restaurants in my area (outside Chicago) are generally $20-30 for a couple if you don’t buy alcohol.
This is all factually true, I guess.
To which I say, tough shit.
The business of serving food to hungry people should not receive special treatment to underpay workers. If that means there’s disruption in the industry while people overcome tipping culture than I guess that’s how the cookie crumbles. Life’s a bitch. If there’s a few restaurants that go under, well, business can be hard, and the restaurants that survive will have more customers. Phase the change in over a few years to give people time to adjust.
Ah, so it’s a difference between AE and BE? Thanks.
So why are Prices of 60$ and up for each* often quoted without anybody getting upset? And why does the media, e.g. in Sitcoms, still treat “going out to the Restaurant” as expensive exercise in snobbery (e.g. in Home Improvement, which Plays in Chicago, the adult couple only goes to one expensive French Restaurant with a snobby waiter, no normal Family-style lower-priced Mom-and-Pop Restaurant).
Yep.
Other differences include “starter” which in AE is usually appetizer or salad course, and “pudding”, which in the US is called dessert. There are probably more than that, that’s just off the top of my head.
Because TV isn’t reality.
There is usually quite a range of price tiers in US restaurants, from “greasy spoons” equal to or less than fast food like McDonald’s in price up through “family diner” style which, as noted, are in the $20-30 price range, but up into $40-50 or even $60 if you add alcohol, to “steakhouse” type places with are around $50-60, higher end restaurants in the same price range, to “fine dining” which can be much higher yet. A friend and I went to a churrascaria in Chicago and spent over $100 for each of us, and we didn’t have any alcohol to inflate that price.
The “snobby French waiter” is a long-stand comedic stereotype in the US. I’ve yet to encounter any such, even in actual French restaurants.
The most common restaurants in the US are
Almost none of the above are featured in sit coms, rather like shopping for socks is not featured in sit-coms, because by and large they don’t make for situational comedy. You do see them in settings like Pulp Fiction, Netflix’s Daredevil, and so forth as settings for characters meeting, have expositional dialogue, and the like.
Never had a problem splitting a check here in the US, either. With one exception - if you make a reservation for a large party of people at a restaurant at the “family diner” level and up generally insists on one check and also a fixed gratuity. Given that such large groups are frequently serviced by multiple waitstaff it probably make more sense to split the gratuity between all of them.
That makes good TV. It doesn’t have much relationship to real life. A normal restaurant visit would not make for good comedy, and the quoted prices are kind of irrelevant (and Home Improvement stopped filming episodes in the last century, so whatever price they quoted must have inflation accounted for.) The point is the character’s reaction, not the number.
Restaurant prices in the US - or Canada, where I live - vary quite a bit depending on where you live, and the relationship to the quality of food can be a shaky one. Within a 10-minute walk from my front door I can eat an outstanding gourmet dinner for $100 Canadian (about $75 US) plus tip and booze. The following evening we could go to another gourmet place, spend twice as much, and be served a meal that will be good but inferior to the first place in every respect. Why that is I can’t really explain.
40 years ago going out to dinner was a major expense for a middle class family, unless you’re talking McDonald’s.
But what you’re just seeing is an old trope of sitcoms and films that probably started at least as far back as I Love Lucy in the '50s and I bet was probably even used in the silent film era.
Sitcoms might still have the expensive restaurant outing as a go-to situation, but it’s not a thorough profile of what eating out culture is like in the U.S. these days, especially on the big cities, where a lot of people eat out regularly because they should moly don’t have the time to shop or cook for themselves.