You can be caught up in the moment and just want to keep your head low. Cowardly I know, but we are mere humans. I’m sure lots of them regret it. (I hope).
I think if you look back you will see that I acknowledged that some people have that opinion.
Perhaps that’s all this thread should be about, but then this would be a very short thread:
Did Smith commit assault and battery?: Yes
Should he have been arrested?: Yes
Should Rock sue him?: Probably, but he appears to be too nice to do so.
End of thread.
But, 700+ posts later, there appears to be more issues in play.
People should make up their own minds about whether or not to “cancel” a performer on an individual basis, by simply not spending time or money on their performances. They should not be coerced by a group of professional “cancelers” who have somehow gained influence over entertainment power brokers.
Generally speaking, people are intelligent enough (maybe not typical Walmart shoppers) to make up their own minds as to the intent of performers. Herd mentality is lazy. It’s the domain of idiots. It’s admitting, I’m too stupid to think for myself, so you think for me.
Take, for example, Don Rickles, the king of insult comedy. He had a long and very successful career insulting everyone, across the board. He was successful because he was very funny and deep down, except for the terminally dumb, people understood that he never had ill intent (as I firmly believe Rock did not either). Compare him to let’s say a known neo-nazi cracking jokes about Jews. Even if his material was funny, he would rightfully be shunned and vilified (except by other neo-nazis), because people would understand his humor was ill-intended.
Then there are the gray area performers, like Michael Richards, a talented comic actor who I liked a lot. I was as disgusted as anyone when he went off on his anti-black rant. Even though I chose to avoid his performances afterward, I eventually gave him the benefit of the doubt and judged his apologies to be sincere and his rant forgivable.
Why were those vile thoughts in Richard’s head in the first place? I don’t know, perhaps he had a racist upbringing and under stress vomited it up without thinking (e.g. I hate to curse but whack my thumb with a hammer and I’ll spew out some doozies, the origin of which I do not know). But, in my mind, and I believe others, Richards at least somewhat redeemed himself by his words and actions afterward, which seemed sincere. He’s no longer a top-tier performer, but I don’t think he’s vilified any longer.
The point is, people can make up their own minds with regard to intentions. They don’t need to follow the herd, particularly if the herd has a warped agenda.
If slapping a presenter, and then screaming profanities is not a basis for ejection, you gotta wonder what is?
No, the Academy wouldn’t have a contingency plan for “1 slap followed by 2 ‘fucks.’” But you GOTTA assume the have some idea of how to plan for misbehavior. What if an awardee gets on stage and starts swearing? Or stripping? What if any 2 people get into a fight? The possibilities are endless. But they don’t have to enumerate every possibility, to decide how to deal with gross transgressions of expected behavior.
And who is better equipped than the movie industry - with decades of experience with a ratings system - to have an idea of what is or is not acceptable behavior in various situations. Liquor is provided at the Golden Globes to encourage a certain vibe. Something different at the Academy.
One complexity is undoubtedly the varying castes within entertainment. I doubt the Academy would have hesitated an instant if the transgressor were some unknown cameraman instead of Will Smith.
In Hollywood? I can totally believe that there is, effectively, no such one person involved in the show, regardless of what anyone’s employment contract says. The guy’s bosses weren’t just in the building, they were literally the audience, including the guy he had to decide about throwing out. Maybe not his bosses for that particular job, but that particular job is over as soon as the show ends, and his next job is going to be dependent on the good will of the people attending the ceremony.
I agree with what you said, but your nuance is misplaced in this situation. Rock could have called Smith’s wife a whore and a cunt, and it still would not justify a battery in any common law jurisdiction. It is troubling that many posters are saying that Rock “deserved it” or some such thing when nobody in the entire world deserves physical violence against them for mere words.
Smith had every right to react non-violently. He could have left the room and told the press that he wasn’t going to sit there and let a washed up comedian like Rock to insult his family. We might have a debate on whether that was petty, but what is really not up for a debate, unless we want to have a debate about 700 years of laws against battery, is that Smith cannot do what he did.
I still think he should be criminally charged to illustrate the fact that one cannot commit violence against another because you don’t like his speech.
I think he will find there are more outs than ins. There was an obvious wrongful act. But what were the damages? Physical? It was just a slap he didn’t look injured. Financial? I don’t think so. Reports are his current tour is selling out faster because of this. Reputation? Smith’s reputation was damaged by his own actions.
While the ‘caste’ concept is reasonable, it’s also true that Will Smith was invited to the event as an honored guest. You don’t have the Oscars at all without the nominees, you can replace a presenter, emcee, cameraman, seat filler, but you can’t just replace the nominees and award winners.
I heard an interesting quote this morning “Empathy is the first victim of hindsight.”
The showrunners were sitting on a potentially explosive situation, and made the choice to de-escalate rather than invite the LAPD to handcuff/perp walk a Best Actor nominee in the middle of their national telecast. I am 100% pro de-escalation, in basically every single possible interaction between people and the police.
I strongly disagree. Many forms of verbal violence, or simply insults, are more hurtful and damaging than a slap. And there is something to be said about physical violence as a necessary corrective measure for deviants and social dejects.
This situation with Will Smith was none of that. Just a mentally unbalanced privileged celebrity acting out in totally innapropriate ways.
Yeah - I think I basically agree. But then they went overboard in the other direction, letting him go on and on in his acceptance speech. IMO he showed blatant, inexcusable disrespect for the event. Rather than being “punished” on the spot he was instead essentially “rewarded” with extra time.
Yes, Hollywood runs on staying in the good graces of those with clout. This is why we hear of so many examples of horrible people just being allowed to go on being horrible as long as they make hits.
Astounding. So who determines what speech is bad enough for violence? Do I get a trial or a summary slapping at the wish of a person who feels insulted, but not Will Smith?
Not sure if I had heard it before Crim Law as a 1st year law student, but the concept that “Mere words can never constitute adequate justification for physical violence” is something I’ve long just sorta accepted as a universal truth in today’s (US at least) society.
I’m pretty sure he just did.
I’m also pretty sure that nobody is going to charge him with a crime.
No time and place in human history has criminalized violence to the point where a single slap required an arrest and criminal charges. It is absolutely routine for the government to let the assailant go without charges as long as the violence is at an end. Certainly charges may be levied, but it is perfectly normal for no charges to be filed.
To his reputation. Surely being publicly humiliated in front of tens of millions counts for something.
Or that he refused to leave after they very nicely asked him
Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.
–Sigmund Freud
No question that there are times and circumstances where prosecutors let a thing go. But a quick google search shows approximately 250,000 arrests for assault in CA each year.
Kanye West arrested for it in January for pushing and hitting a man who asked for his autograph. Kanye West named main suspect in Los Angeles battery investigation - CBS News
If I am Kanye or any of those 250k people, I am very upset. Why are you picking on me when a guy does it on live television in front of millions of people? It is okay for him to do it but I get a criminal record? It breeds disrespect for the law when it is done so openly.
Heck, pretty much any nominee in categories Best Documentary down would have been stopped before reaching the stage and if they managed to get the slap in tackled and removed. It is a pretty small club powerful enough to have been able to get away with it.
I cannot fault the decisions made on the fly by the people in charge. Default is the show must go on. There was a reasonable chance that Mr. Smith would give an appropriate apology briefly, including to Mr. Rock, followed by a recognition to all the people that the award is rightfully shared by - rather than the self-serving pathetic portrayal of himself as a defender he gave.
I do fault the crowd for applauding that acceptance performance.
INAL but even I understand that “fighting words”, words aimed at being so hateful and vile as to incite a violent response, are not protected free speech but are also not considered a justification for assault and battery in response.
As noted earlier (to add to what you said):
The YouTuber LegalEagle posted a video about this and what Rock said absolutely are not “fighting words” in the legal sense. Indeed, LegalEagle cites a California jury instruction that tells them “insulting words are not a defense.”