That audience was following a script as much as the people on stage - note the special applause given to a deaf actor. They are part of the show, and when in doubt they just do what the person next to them is doing. And I’m not sure many in the audience knew as much about what actually happened as viewers with their iPads.
Sure. There are exceptions to what constitute “mere words.” But surely you do not view “Waiting for GI Jane 2” to have been “fighting words”?
I’m thinking that you are misunderstanding my post. EVEN true “fighting words” are NOT an exception, and do NOT justify assault and battery. Even if Mr. Rock said something truly horrifically disgustingly hatefully vile, something that baited a violent reaction, something worse than I can even imagine, something that would make most of us want to hit him, it would NOT be a legal justification for Mr Smith’s action. It would not be an exception.
(My thoughts on the GI Jane comment being in fact a holding back fire, playing nice throw a lame one out there, joke, are already on record. He had good reason to be incredulous that Ms Smith even rolled her eyes at it.)
Separate question -
What COULD Will Smith now do that would rehabilitate him in your eyes?
OK. Not sure whether there is a distinction that warrants parsing.
Separate question -
What COULD Will Smith now do that would rehabilitate him in your eyes?
I don’t know that he COULD. I never really felt much one way or the other about him. I guess mildly favorable, as he seemed generally affable and pleasant, and was in some movies I liked. But I wouldn’t go out of my way to watch something just b/c he was in it. I thought his wife was somewhat weird, but I had even less of an opinion of her either way. Did not care for the music she made.
But he acted in a way that moved him into the entitled boor/jerk category, who feels he can blatantly transgress basic societal rules.
Since I do not really follow Hollywood closely, he’d have to engage in a pretty significant, ongoing effort to rehabilitate his image for me to care enough to change my opinion.
Is this going to be part of a strongly worded letter to the DA? Or perhaps it’s what you’ll be saying to the officer while he stuffs you in the back of the cruiser. Or maybe it’s part of your statement to the Judge?
Not only will the complaint fail to get you out of the charges, but your targets will pass it around the building while laughing at you. “Get this guy, he thinks he’s in Hollywood.”
Correct. Even so called “fighting words” do not justify an assault or battery. “Fighting words” are those which can be criminalized by a state as outside of the free speech clause because by their nature they tend to incite a breach of the peace, or in most cases an unjustified battery.
I’m not so sure that the doctrine has much validity today. The Court has mentioned in dicta, but has not upheld a law under the fighting words doctrine since Chaplinksy in 1942. Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire :: 315 U.S. 568 (1942) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center
The law held as constitutional in that case:
No person shall address any offensive, derisive or annoying word to any other person who is lawfully in any street or other public place, nor call him by any offensive or derisive name, nor make any noise or exclamation in his presence and hearing with intent to deride, offend or annoy him, or to prevent him from pursuing his lawful business or occupation.
The defendant in that case:
on the public sidewalk on the easterly side of Wakefield Street, near unto the entrance of the City Hall, did unlawfully repeat the words following, addressed to the complainant, that is to say, ‘You are a God damned racketeer’ and ‘a damned Fascist and the whole government of Rochester are Fascists or agents of Fascists,’ the same being offensive, derisive and annoying words and names.
Such a thing does not comport with the modern idea of free speech. I think we would unanimously believe that one could call a politician “a damned Fascist” if we wanted to.
I didn’t say speech, I said verbal violence and sometimes insults.
I’m not saying there aren’t legal consequences for choosing violence and I don’t particularly recommend it. I’m just speaking in generalities to frame my opinion of the incident at the Oscars involving Will Smith. Such that I’m not one of those people who says it’s never OK (morally) to hit another person because of words.
Morally is different than legally.
No matter how much I insult your SO you would be legally, criminally liable if you physically attacked me for doing so no matter how justified you think you are. I’d probably have a good civil case against you too.
And this is not hard to understand why. Sure, we’d all be pissed at someone insulting a person we care for but it would be a super-mess real fast if we allowed people to assault anyone they felt offended by.
Morally is different than legally.
Yes, I agree. I thought that was obvious from my post.
I took from your post that you will hit people who offend you and think that is ok and justified.
It’s not black and white. I don’t consider myself a violent person and the situations where I think it is morally justified to start throwing punches are very few and far between. But it’s not “never” in my opinion.
There has been no damage to his reputation. Just the opposite. In the only truly measurable way it’s helped him. He’s selling out pretty large venues at a much faster rate than before the incident. For the most part he’s been praised for his restraint and not criticized. It would be very difficult to prove any damage to his reputation. Smith damaged his own reputation.
You’ve got intentional torts of assault and battery and possibly intentional infliction of emotional distress. He is entitled to be compensated for his physical pain, even if it was a few minutes of stinging. He is entitled to compensation for the fear he was placed in, both when he took the slap and possibly after Smith yelled threats and profanities afterwards. Emotional harm, definitely. Embarrassed in front of tens of millions of people on live television. As they are intentional torts, they can come with punitive damages.
It’s really too soon to say.
Odds are that no matter what else he does from here THAT moment and that fairly lame joke will define him. For right now that means some extra sold seats and most impressed with how he handled himself. But he now knows that when he dies a leading aspect of his obit is going to his lame joke and the slap. Working with him or not will be impacted by what people think of Mr Smith and how his huge production company may take it.
I would not want my lifetime career to become defined by my having been slapped the shit out of for a lame joke.
I seriously doubt that. I mean it’ll be mentioned, but we are talking about one of the most highly rated stand up comedians of all time. The lame joke and slap isn’t even a leading aspect of his wikipedia page.
My anger at Will Smith has abated a lot. He seems to be in a toxic, probably emotionally abusive relationship. A sincere heartfelt apology for his behavior would go a long way but I doubt it will happen beyond his PR statement.
IMHO you vastly overestimate awareness of him by the general public for anything other than this.
Everyone knows of the slap. Many many know of him now as the lame joke slapped the shit out of guy than have ever seen him on SNL in the early ‘90s or watched any of his specials. And in another decade or so?
A career worth of hard work and this is gonna be his legacy.
I agree. I foresee short term gain due to the buzz. But, thereafter he’ll be known as the guy who got slapped for telling a bad joke. Rock will himself become the joke. I hope it doesn’t play out that way, because Chris is a good-natured, talented comic. Damages are real, IMO.
I’m having trouble thinking of any standup comedians more famous than Chris Rock, before the Oscars. Several may be as famous, but who is more famous than him?
This event happened just over 2 weeks ago. While this thread is ongoing, I don’t think society at large is still actively interested. It will fade into the background and just be that one wacky thing that happened to Chris Rock, which he didn’t make a big deal of.
File a lawsuit, demand an arrest, this slap will have no chance of going away. There will be months of discussion, it will rise to the top of the headlines every time something new is disclosed or a new step is taken. Chris will be shaking the world saying “Hey, guys, remember when I got bitch-slapped on TV???”
His best move is the high road. Take the free publicity, be the forgiving generous guy, if need be, and let the ugliness fade away.