Soccer moms and dads

The Game Room
1

I have two grandkids, Jack 10 and Maia 12. Both play youth soccer, Jack competitively for his age.

My daughter and son-in-law are very involved in their leagues. Also much of their social life revolves around after game pizza parties with the other parents as well as other social events. Their family travels as far as 600 miles to go to some some of Jack’s tournaments a few times a year. Between the two kids there are probably six or more practices and four or more games each week.

My daughter and son-in-law are now involved in the typical “ my son is not getting enough playing time” thing. Jack is a pretty good player but he’s not Lionel Messi.

There are other politics involved that I’m thankfully not privy to. It’s hard to even have a conversation with my daughter on the sidelines during a game because she is so intently focused. If she’s not intently watching the game, she’s chit chatting with the other soccer moms and I’m basically an eggplant in a chair. That’s not an issue that I’m concerned about here but I’m just mentioning it..

One concern is that Jack will get burned out on soccer way too soon, but what I’m wondering here is do others have a similar experience.

2

Lots of experience.

From parents being banned from the sidelines in U-8 soccer to losing friends because we were not sufficiently focused on some sport at age 10 to fit in with their lifestyle.

One of my daughter’s lost friends did get a scholarship after a stellar high school lacrosse career. She got into a $95,000 private liberal arts school that she was never getting into without her contribution to their lacrosse prowess, and she got $5000 off the tuition each year she’s on the team.

Well it was $89,000 when she enrolled in 2024, it’s $95,000 now.

Another got into a similarly expensive but less prestigious school partly due to his fencing abilities. No scholarship though.

But a dozen others that have spent tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours on a sport have netted nothing.

But there is a community in each sport of the parents who are similarly committed. So it works out, I suppose. Having the support of grandparents is sometimes key, if both parents work. I know my nephews could not have gotten as far in Tae Kwon Do if my parents weren’t nearby and able to ferry them almost every weekday to and from the facility, depending on my sister and brother-in-law’s work and travel schedules. And I’m talking for six or seven years. Sometimes on weekends too.

3

My 12-year-old grandson started playing soccer competitively when he was 7. He’s a very good player as far as I can tell. My daughter often drives him to away games and tournaments in other states. She’s one of the team managers and has to deal with other kids’ parents and their issues. For example, two of the kids have undocumented parents, so flying to a tournament is something they won’t do to avoid dealing with ICE. They have to drive, which sometimes means driving for 14 hours, playing a game the following day, and then driving back home 14 hours.

My grandson plays in the backfield, so he doesn’t get many chances to score, but he loves “the beautiful game” and playing it. He even likes going to practice three nights a week.. He knows all the MLS stars and closely follows his local pro team, FC Tulsa. He hopes to play soccer in high school and college, assuming he’s good enough to make those teams. Only time will tell. I don’t see him ever getting burned out on soccer. It’s his life.

4

When we moved into this house, our neighbors had 2 boys - middle school-ish. Both very into soccer. The parents would talk about all the camps, travel teams, and such - which sounded quite expensive to us. Their idea was that the kids would get college scholarships. Our impression was that the kids were good - not great.

By sometime in high school, both kids had dropped out of soccer - and the parents were complaining about how unfair it was that all the other parents were able to afford tutors and test prep. Also that their kids didn’t do their homework and, instead, stayed up all night watching Youtube videos. Oldest kid joined the army, younger dropped out of community college. The parents have moved away.

Struck us as poor priorities.

5

Yes, I discouraged my kids from tracking athletics as a ticket to college.

Those it works out for it’s great. Regular kids with many activities don’t have the time or support to devote to it.

I, myself, had a dance scholarship. It paid a good bit of my expenses. But it was very hard work being in the company. I would rather have vegged out like all my artsy friends.

Of course pro dance was not in my mind ever, either.

There were 7 of us, Daddy needed us all to get scholarships and financial aid to go.

6

I have seen it, not just in soccer but other sports, where parents (usually but not exclusively the dad) ride the kids hard, pushing them to excel so they can either win a college scholarship or make it in the pros. In most cases, the kids end up hating the chosen sport, and often resent the parent in the long run, too. Kids should play sports because they enjoy it, not because their parents want (need?) them to fulfill their own agendas.

I coached my kids’ soccer teams for a number of years, and heard plenty of complaints from parents about their kid not getting enough playing time or being played out of their “natural position”. I usually told said parents that if their kid was that good, they’d be getting recruited by higher level competitive teams, and that nobody is winning or losing a scholarship at under-11s. OTOH, it gets absolutely fierce around U-14s, especially for the girls.

7

I agree that this is not limited to soccer.

My younger daughter is a member of a local karate club. She takes age appropriate classes and is slowly climbing the belt rankings. She enjoys the physicality and the outlet for her competitive spirit.

She is not, however, interested in aggressively pursuing the sport, to the point of being considered for our national or Olympic teams or anything like that. It’s a hobby, and she takes it exactly that seriously.

However, the club is quite assertive about recruiting parental support for increased involvement. They send us two or three emails every day reminding us about upcoming tournaments in the general area (with three hours’ drive), inviting parents to help with setup and breakdown at these events, sharing articles about the benefit of the sport, yada yada. It seems to cater to, if not actively encourage, the single-minded dedication described above.

We just ignore all this and let our kid participate at her comfort level. But it is a little disturbing.

8

I used to do quite a bit of martial arts. My school/teachers never awarded/tested for belts (other than BJJ - and then only blue and purple.) And one of my kids did karate for a while.

No idea about your daughter’s school, but many schools are “belt factories”, requiring frequent belt testing, which they charge extra for. IMO, those were always schools to avoid.

9

One of my good friends was a “professional dad”, totally focused on his son during youth soccer games, often yelling so loudly at him from the stands you could hear his voice over the entire section of the seating area. Totally ignoring everyone around him, as another poster mentions. His son did play comp level and eventually at our local State U, but was dropped from the team for poor, uh, academic performance, and is now adrift and directionless as he tries to figure out how and when to finish school and what to do next with his life.

Long ago another friend gave me this advice when my kids were little: encourage them to play at the rec leagues, where they have fun with friends and it’s not too serious. Avoid the comp level, otherwise you won’t have weekends. This worked great for us, as we rarely had to travel more than a half day for one of their events. Both my kids did High School sports (football and rowing) and my daughter did get some scholarship help at college, but we did not expect anything other than keeping them fit, busy, organized, and exhausted during their teen years. So many parents get dollar signs in their eyes as soon as their kid shows interest in a sport, but our approach was casual, letting them enjoy the sport at their own pace. As for us, we always only contributed the minimum amount of time and money the teams asked for :slightly_smiling_face:.

10

This is absolutely a valid concern, and there are multiple factors at play. The state of youth sports in the US is a disaster right now, IMO.

One factor (the one you’ve identified) is the parents. Parents are very susceptible to the idea that their kids are special. They always want their kid to play more, at a higher level, and at the “flashy” positions (striker or attacking midfield in soccer, pitcher SS or 1B in baseball). A lot of this is just pride and joy in watching their kid play, but it can get ugly quickly if they feel their kid is being underplayed or mistreated. This can also lead to overuse since the parents always want their kid to play more.

The second parental factor (IMO) is that a lot of adults have lost some of the community connections they used to get from church or other social clubs. I know it’s harder for me to make and keep adult friends than it seemed to be for my parents. Sports teams and organizations can become an attractive substitute for that.

A third, more sinister, factor is that corporations have realized there is money to be made. If you can convince a parent that their kid is (a) special and (b) at risk of missing out if they don’t join a club team you can pretty easily convince them to leave their rec team and pay you thousands of dollars. Plus more for private training and tournament fees and uniforms and equipment and…

What’s ridiculous is that often these are the very same teams with the very same coaches (dads, typically) that used to run the rec teams. They just have fancier uniforms and practice at a turfed warehouse rather than the local park’s diamond. They aren’t getting any better coaching or even necessarily playing better teams than they would at a well-run recreational program. It’s that what used to be the “competitive rec” level basically doesn’t exist anymore (they are all filled with club teams).

Then within and between these clubs you get massive competition for the best players, to the point that there is little to no team cohesion or loyalty (in either direction) between the player and the club. Parents get very angry about which team their player is placed on, and will quickly leave if little Johnny gets put on the AA team rather than the AAA one. Which, since they are paying megabucks makes sense, I guess.

If you can’t tell, I coach a recreational baseball team (11U) right now and it’s been a constant struggle to explain to the parents (and my own son) that they don’t need to play on a high-level rec team at 8, 9 and 10 years old in order to play high school baseball. And that the number one thing they should be doing right now is playing to love the game, learn how to play the game, and have fun with their friends. We’ve been able to keep the team together so far, but with a lot of turnover. I’ve had at least 5 players leave to go play “travel ball” (they never travel outside of our metro area…) and at least two of them have quit baseball altogether.

This is the way. Youth sports should be for fitness and fun, with only the top <10% doing highly competitive stuff, and ideally not until 13+.

11

Very interesting responses. One slightly disturbing thing about watching these games with my kids and grandkids is the partisan cheering for their teams.

When I see a kid on an opposing team make a good play. I will sometimes blurt out. “great job kid!”. I never see any parents on Jack’s team or any team do this.

My point is when the kids are 10 years old they should be having fun and winning shouldn’t be the primary goal. I’m not advocating trophies for everyone I’m just saying winning should be secondary to exercise and camaraderie.

12

I am, actually. I think the peer pressure from winning trophies and tournaments has a big effect on this behavior. Facebook posts showing your neighbors kids winning some out-of-state tournament can make parents think their kid is missing out, even if the post doesn’t mention that they actually won the third-level bracket for their age group. Conversely, the one year my rec team won our division (which was the lowest division) was the year I had players leave because their parents thought they were “ready for a bigger challenge”.

My son started pushing to join a club baseball team because the kids in his class all talk about the rings they win at baseball tournaments and what level they play at, as if it really matters on non-regulation diamonds before anybody has hit puberty.

I honestly think that youth sports at the <13 ages should be intentionally set up so that teams can’t win anything. No standings published; no league winners. Tournaments (if you really have to have such a thing) should be set up like a Swiss tournament or something and you just end after those matches. No need to have a big bracket to decide who is “the best” out of the teams that showed up.

Almost all of the bad behavior I see in youth baseball (pitchers getting overworked and injured, ringers brought in on “bracket day”, arguing with umps, parents heckling other parents (or kids!)) is because somebody has convinced them that IT MATTERS. And that is almost always because there is a trophy of some sort on the line.

I always get all of the players on my team a trophy no matter what record we have. They showed up, they worked hard, they deserve recognition.

13

Here’s the thing, though. Professional and elite-level athletes don’t just materialize from the womb fully formed. It is literally a lifelong process starting from childhood sports. At one point they were just like any other kid playing the sport. Sports are supposed to have winners and losers, competition is part of the point. There’s nothing wrong with that, and kids are capable of playing competitively at all levels and process winning and losing. Do some parents go overboard with it? Absolutely. In all things, you have to find a balance. The kids with talent and drive, properly supported, will rise up and move on to ever more competitive levels of the sport. The rest of the kids, properly supported, will still benefit from all the things that come with playing sports - especially team sports. Ranking teams, winning trophies, and dealing with losing is all part of that.

14

I don’t disagree with that at all. I think what has happened, drive largely by profit motives, is that way too many parents (and by extension their kids) have been convinced that those “competitive levels” are for them rather than the recreational levels, and at far too young an age.

Which has the added effect of hollowing out the recreational leagues to the point where in some areas you have no choice but to pay big bucks to join a tournament team because it’s only the non-athletic “loser kids” that are playing rec ball or church league.

To my mind, the level of differentiation you are talking about should start at puberty, or just after. So 13+, basically (maybe 12, for the top-level players). Before that it should all be recreational, and everybody should be recognized for participating. 10U “tournament teams” are an abomination.

Is it, though? Other than dealing with losing, which happens whether you have standings and trophies. If I had to list all of the benefits of team sports for youth (which obviously I believe in since I spend hundreds of hours a year coaching it), I don’t think “knowing where you rank compared to your peers” would be on that list at all.

15

Since you coach now, I assume that you played sports as a kid. So think back on when you were a kid playing sports. Did you and your team not have a sense of pride and accomplishment when you won tournaments and ranked highly, and disappointment when you lost or didn’t rank well? A good coach channels that disappointment into drive and motivation to practice/play better next time.

16

I never won anything as a youth baseball player. My teams were consistently horrible. It was still the highlight of my childhood. I just watched an old VHS we dug up of my one season of basketball. We were losing 38-4 or something at halftime, and I think I took one shot. I was still beaming at the end of the game because my Dad was able to drive across the state to watch me play.

I do remember getting a lot of pride when my High School Marching Band won tournaments or ranked well. I think by High School it makes a lot of sense to really work on driving high achievement, and rankings and moving up to the local/regional/state/national scale is an important part of that. But not in Middle School, and definitely not in Elementary!

With the team I coach we take maybe 5 minutes talking about a loss, mainly what we could have done better or some coachable moments. Not right after the game; at the next practice. And then we move on. I’m reasonably sure only my son knows what our team’s record was last season.

I could write essays about why I feel so strongly about this, but just from the coaches perspective I would do things very differently if I thought the games mattered. I would never let some players play in the infield or 1B. The boys that worked really hard to learn how to pitch? Some of them would still never see the mound in a game that was close. The batting order would be optimized for run-scoring, not making sure everybody got the same number of ABs. You just can’t square the circle of claiming to be there to develop players and foster teamwork and fun and then managing to win. It cannot be done.

17

My wife and I breathed a huge sigh of relief when both our kids decided to drop out of the competitive sports track and opted just to play in high school. It meant not having to drag them hither and yon for practices, games, and tournaments, and freed our afternoons and weekends substantially. Older one switched from soccer to cross country and track, and the younger one continue to play soccer and added tennis. This was 15+ years ago, and I’m sure the “Youth Travel Sports Machine” is even worse now than it was ca. 2007-11.

I coach another sport, and one of the dads is a typical frustrated athlete. He rides his 8-year old son constantly, and has a plan laid out for high school state championships, college scholarships, and the Olympics. In the meantime, I’m just trying to make it fun for the kid.

18

I appreciate all who volunteer to coach youth sports! It must be shitty at times to be a coach due to overly “enthusiastic” parents. I did it for a short season of rec soccer for my son as an Asst coach and, uh, it’s not for me. Another time I was pressed into service due to the coach who actually signed-up just simply not showing up for rec basketball. I suck at it, mainly because I never played soccer or basketball in my youth. After my sucky soccer coaching season and listening to my wife berate me, I challenged her to step-up and she coached both girls and boys rec basketball for my daughter and son (at the same time!). She did great, and everyone had a good experience, but there was one kid whose dad got up my my wife’s grill about playing time and she shut him down by telling him this is a rec league and everyone gets to play, and if his hot-shit kid was too good for that, then GTFOH and join the comp team.

19

My kid is 13 and into sports, so I am in the thick of this. I agree that the pay to play “travel” teams are an abomination that charge parents through the nose and demand ridiculous time commitments in order to get fancy uniforms and coaching that, as others have commented, isn’t usually much better than they’d get in a school or recreational league. So far my kid hasn’t been involved in this, but most of his friends have.

In my experience, the driving force is usually that the kids are sold on the glamor of playing “travel”, not that the parents are delusional about their kid’s chances of Making It Big. Also, it’s a blast for the kids; they make close friends, because they’re spending a LOT of time with kids they have a lot in common with.

Most of the parents would love it if their kid decided to stop playing travel and give them their time and money back. They go along with it because they want their kid to have the experience of being committed to working hard at something over the long term, not because they think it’s a potential career path.

(I do know one kid in the stereotypical situation of wanting to stop playing elite hockey because he’s sick of never being free to hang out with his friends, but his dad won’t let him because he thinks he’s going to be in the NHL. He’s one of my kid’s best friends, but he won’t be coming to my kid’s bar mitzvah because he has a game that day).

I also agree with the observation that the parents of kids who are deeply involved in sports tend to socialize mostly with each other, so that may be another motivation for keeping your kids involved.

My son played soccer in fifth and sixth grades and loved it; most of the boys in his class were on the team, and it was a very positive bonding experience for all of them, despite the fact that this meant they had way more players than they needed and the poorer athletes rarely got to actually play.

But then for seventh grade, the coach decided that he wanted to “prepare the kids for the expectations of high school soccer”, and instituted competitive tryouts, which my kid was too intimidated to even show up for. All his friends who made the team are on travel teams, and they all agree this coach is much more demanding than their travel coach. Sure, the team is winning a lot of games, but I think it’s sad that most of the sixth grade team can’t participate anymore. Couldn’t they prepare for the expectations of high school soccer (or not) when they’re, like, in high school?

At the elementary school level, I see no reason for any organized teams to exist which don’t accept everyone who signs up, and give everyone the same amount of playing time.