Some Street Cyclists

I am a cyclist myself so I’m certainly not pitting all people who ride bycycles on the road.

But here in the U.K. we have a particular breed of street cyclist who are at best a fucking nuisance, at worst a serious danger to themselves,other road users and pedestrians.

They are easily identified because they virtually always ride racing bikes and have all of the acoutrements of Tour de France athletes,the crash hat,the lycra etc.etc.

Why am I pitting them?
Because while they are playing at pretending to be pro racers they have absaloutley no awareness of what the fuck is happening around them.
They are bent over the handlebars staring straight ahead and going much faster then their reaction ability can handle resulting in everyone else in their vicinity having to get out of their way or risk a collision.
They also seem to get a cheap thrill out of passing slow moving vehicles or pedestrians as closely as possible.

I have been fuming about this subject for some time but what has brought me to actually making this pitting is reading in my local paper that one of these characters has just got himself killed by running into the side of an articulated lorry.

How on Earth can you not notice a juggernaut in front of you?
Just how safe are you to other road users.
What if it had of been a pedestrian crossing the road instead of a lorry?
For fuck sake why dont these people grow up.
They are always males and usually middle aged so I suspect some sort of mid life crisis may be part of this phenonomen.

I dont mind them killing themselves but I do mind them getting other people killed.

It is a pet hate of mine- these toe rags riding on the footpath. Hey- that is for pedestrians! If you want to chance your arm on a machine get on the road.

Hmmm, two bike pitting threads and it isn’t even May yet.

These people piss me off to no end, particularly those riding on crowded sidewalks. Look, asshat, in the eyes of the law you’re riding a shitty motorcycle. If you can’t drive a car on the sidewalk, you can’t ride a bike there.

Would you guys make up your mind?Get off the road, get on the road. Sheeh.

“footpath” is Australian for sidewalk.

Those aren’t the same guys.

The anti bicycle crowd come in two flavors.
Flavor number 1 is represented by Blinking Duck in the other thread where he thinks that bicycles don’t have a right to ride on the road, but should stay on the sidewalk.
flavor number 2 is in this thread where Cicero and Fionn think bikes belong on the road, not on the sidewalk.*
Since both of these thread are active at the same time, I have to admit I admire the irony.

*FTR I agree with this attitude, and I ride a bike.

My point is that Cicero and Fionn have not expressed any real anti-bike attitude (although Cicero’s characterization of “toerags” is less than charitable and might point him in that direction). The immediate assumption that because somebody doesn’t want bikes on the sidewalk they are anti-bike is what I object to, particularly in Fionn’s post which really just seems to be that people who ride bikes on sidewalks are assholes. No over-riding anti-bike sentiment there that I can detect. That’s not to say that it isn’t there, just that it isn’t in that post.

I also think that bikes belong on the road and that people who ride on sidewalks are generally assholes (I make an exception for places like college campuses and whatnot). I also think that people who ride dangerously and like assholes are dangerous assholes. I also think that the vast majority of road cyclists are considerate, generally law-abiding, and have as much right to be there are I do. Doesn’t stop me from getting pissed at the assholes.

FWIW, around here bicyclists are permitted to ride on the sidewalks; they just have to not ride like an asshole (except that bit’s in legal-speak in the actual regulations) and yield to pedestrians.

I think Rick understands that fully. You are missing his point. As long as there are wrong-thinking people like the Blinkingduck, you should not be terribly surprised that some assholes ride the sidewalk. I’m not justifying their riding on the sidewalk, mind you, its still dickery, but again…not surprised.

If that’s his point, it wasn’t very well expressed. He pretty clearly lumped Cicero and Fionne into the anti-bike crowd, despite their merely expressing that cyclists shouldn’t be on the sidewalk, a position shared by you, me, and Rick.

Such lumping together accomplishes nothing. Yes, Blinkingduck’s position is stupid (as I expressed in the other thread), but he’s not here and has nothing to do with Cicero and Fionne.

At any rate, I’m pretty sure we all agree with each other on the main point, so it’s probably best to just drop it.

Can you tell us about your cycling experience and personal safety comfort level?

I ask because not all cyclists will have the same abilities or comfort level.

Personally, I don’t mind riding in the heaviest urban traffic, but certainly plenty of others, while happy to ride on even urban side streets when traffic is light, will never even dream of riding where I do, and that is fine - if they don’t feel their skills are up to it, then they shouldn’t ride there.

Just like skiing or snowboarding - you have the most fun where you feel safest that you can handle things that might come up. These things come from experience and practice, they are skills, not doubt about it.

Also, I am guessing you don’t ride a bike with drop handlebars. And it appears that you have some sort of social grudge against people wearing performance clothes when they are, well, performing.

I will leave the outfit stuff alone, but drop handlebars are not any less safe then sitting upright. Your vision is not impaired, your reaction time is not less. Others may be able to argue this better then me, but it may be (based on my own experience) that both are actually improved compared to being upright.

What you do get from a bike with drop handlebars is a body position that is far more efficient at capturing the energy of your legs and transporting it to the pedals and then to the wheels. This is probably extended by most of the riders on such bikes because their toes are in toe clips on the pedals, or even more likely, their shoes actually snap on to the pedals with a release system akin to ski boots.

It is counter-intuitive, I know, but in my experience, feet strapped to the pedal (but able to come off in an emergency) is a safer way to ride. A bump or jolt will not cause your feet to fly off the pedals, which can result in a sudden loss of balance or control and maybe a BIG wobble side to side while you correct. Instead, it is much easier to maintain control when clipped in.

So, while the drop down riders are going faster then you, and you might think they are racing, because of the major increases in efficiency even independent of their fitness level they may actually be working LESS hard then you to go that rate compared to the slower rate you are traveling.

Also, even for upright bikes, the geometry of the frame, and proper fitting matters. I have a nice mountain bike, upright, that fits me well, that I ride on road and off. My girlfriend’s bike is about the same size, but the angles in the frame are much “gentler” leaving me even more upright when I ride it, the seat is much more cushy resulting in lost energy transferred to the seat instead of the pedals as I ride, and the result is a much less comfortable, efficient, and yes, safe ride in comparison to my bike.

Not all bikes are the same, and while I don’t know what kind of bike you have, I hope you will consider now that there are features of any bike that are actually safety related that you may not have realized. Perhaps even your bike is not as safe as you think, and that you end up spending more effort to keep it from leading you astray then you need to with a safer bike for you (even if you stay with an upright model).

Bikes, in part for efficiency, and in part for safety reasons I describe, are not one size fits all. Probably the riders you see, if they are riding expensive bikes, have paid in part to have all this taken into account with a bike that is safer for them because it fits better and reacts better and allows them to react better.

Now, it sucks that a guy hit a lorry, that’s for sure. Sometimes that happens. Sometime the lorry hits the bike. Sometimes cars collide. All these things can and do result in fatalities.

If the worst accidents that ever happen on the roads where you live is that occasionally a bike hits a lorry, then you are living in the closest thing to traffic paradise I have ever heard of and I want to ride there myself :slight_smile:

Wow really?

Despite our differences on the other thread, I’d have to agree that riding on sidewalks is de facto unsafe and hence unwise.

Aside from the pedestrian thing, you are where cars don’t expect to see you, and that is asking for trouble when you inevitably cross their paths (driveways and corners) which happens often.

Even on a place like a beach boardwalk, and even with bike hours limited and no vehicle traffic, it seems unsafe all around to me.

Can you characterize the place where you live and why they allow riding on the sidewalk? Maybe the unsafeness of it has never come up, or maybe something about that place gives reasonable people a thought that the sidewalks are better then even the awful roads? I believe you when you say it is allowed, I just wonder why really?

Seattle. IANAL so I can’t speculate on the reasoning, but I personally have no problem with people riding on sidewalks. Bicyclists generally ride in the road, and almost never ride on the sidewalk when there are a lot of pedestrians.

People drive so aggressively and stupidly in my city that I’d never chance cycling on the road unless there’s a bike lane. Even then, I’m paranoid.

I usually just bike on grass or dirt beside sidewalks, I feel much safer.

I suspect he knows this, and I suspect he also believes that heavy urban traffic is not the place to be “performing”.

I know what you mean. They run in packs here, between three and nine or so in a group. Always male, always middle aged. Happily for the trucks, here they mostly stay on the bike lanes of which we have a gracious plenty.

They take, as far as I can tell, absolutely no notice of anybody else on the road. Since this is the Netherlands the bike lanes alone regularly include people from four years old to people in their mid eighties, people pulling or carrying loads on their bikes, not to mention the occasional guy in a fancy suit talking on his cell phone. Doesn´t matter, everybody is at risk of life and limb when these guys enter the picture. As far as I can tell they also take no notice of all those lovely signs put up with such painstaking care to indicate such insignificant matters as right of way, blind intersections and the like.

Can´t stand them. Have occasionally had to stifle the urge to bounce one right into a canal and see how fast they can get out of those toe clips.

You can’t.

This makes you better than them how?

Wow. This is possibly the most pathetic comeback I’ve ever seen in the Pit.