Somebody please shove a chainsaw up Whoopi Goldberg's ass

The BBQ Pit
101

[QUOTE=you with the face]
What makes you look stupid is your insistence that an explanation, by definition, is an excuse.
[/QUOTE]
What makes you look stupid is that you attribute things to me I did not say. I said explanations for bad behavior are excuses. Plus, your momma dresses you funny.

Honest to God, you really should read the thread before you get al warm and runny thinking about another opportunity to insult me. The dictionary cite was a response to a specific claim by Miller, which should have been clear to anyone not intent on character assassination.

Gorgeous! Since that is not my argument, you can jam the madness wherever it feels best.

Is that your real hair? Why would you do *that *to it?

102

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
I think it can show that there is some connection between “excuse” and “explain,” which was why I used it. It also can be used as a response to another dictionary cite. Dueling dictionaries, as it were.
[/QUOTE]

As I am not playing the “deuling dictionaries” game, you’ll have to pardon me if I find a connection borne of linguistics to be entirely unconvincing.

103

[QUOTE=Trion]
As I am not playing the “deuling dictionaries” game, you’ll have to pardon me if I find a connection borne of linguistics to be entirely unconvincing.
[/QUOTE]
I did not use it that way in my response to you. I included it in my response to you merely as an additional explanation. Sorry for the misunderstandng.

104

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
What makes you look stupid is that you attribute things to me I did not say. I said explanations for bad behavior are excuses.
[/quote]

And for the upteenth time, that’s not true.

“Johnny shot Mary in the face because he’s crazy.” That’s an explanation, not an excuse.

“Tribes in some parts of Africa practice genital mutilation because its a cultural tradition.” Another non-excusing explanation.

“Fanatical Islamist suicide bombers are taught from a young age to hate Western ideals.” An explanation. Not an excuse.

So then why did you use that in response to me?

Guess I’m smoking dope then because I could have swore you said

But what do I know.

105

[QUOTE=you with the face]

So then why did you use that in response to me?
[/QUOTE]
Because you used one. Dueling dictionaries. See above.

Right. Not all excuses, which is what you said.

What you like? Your mother’s maiden name? The GNP of Sumatra? Wet birds don’t fly at night? A horse is a horse? Not all Chinese don’t look alike?

We could have a lot more fun as friends. Seriously. I’ve offered it before, and I do so again.

106

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
We could have a lot more fun as friends. Seriously. I’ve offered it before, and I do so again.
[/QUOTE]

Sure we can buddies. I welcome all offers for friendship.

But I’ll say this: you put a strain on our relationship, my lemon-scented fuzz bunny, whenever I catch you squabbling over semantics and dictionary definitions to score meaningless points in these kinds of arguments.

It’s okay to concede that others are right sometimes. Really it is. “An explanation of bad behavior is an excuse, by definition” is a wrong statement. Friends don’t let friends just say stuff like this without calling them out on it.

107

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
I did not use it that way in my response to you. I included it in my response to you merely as an additional explanation. Sorry for the misunderstandng.
[/QUOTE]

Well, that’s fine. But I still don’t know what you’re getting at.

I offered my view on the difference between an explanation and an excuse. Are you agreeing with it? Or not?

Rereading your post (56) it sure seems like you’re using the words “explanation” “excuse” “defended” and “justified” in fairly synonomous ways.

108

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
The dictionary cite was a response to a specific claim by Miller, which should have been clear to anyone not intent on character assassination.
[/QUOTE]

What you intended to show with that definition wasn’t clear to me at all, and I hope you don’t think I’m here for character assassination. I almost figured it got left in your post by accident, like a cut-and-paste “typo,” or something, because it really didn’t do a thing to bolster your contention. Sorry, dude, you know I’ve got nothing against you as a poster, but you’re simply wrong on this count.

109

[QUOTE=you with the face]
Sure we can buddies. I welcome all offers for friendship.
[/QUOTE]
Cool.

The semantics and dictionary definitions were offered to counter one assertion and one assertion only – that excuses and explanations are absolutely unrelated. I stand by that usage. Other posters saw it as a defense of the larger point. It wasn’t.

I do it all the time. Really, I do.

OK. How about this. “An excuse is an explanation of bad behavior, by definition.” Does that fly?

110

[QUOTE=Miller]
What you intended to show with that definition wasn’t clear to me at all, and I hope you don’t think I’m here for character assassination. I almost figured it got left in your post by accident, like a cut-and-paste “typo,” or something, because it really didn’t do a thing to bolster your contention. Sorry, dude, you know I’ve got nothing against you as a poster, but you’re simply wrong on this count.
[/QUOTE]
If I understood you correctly, you said that excuses and explanations for bad behavior were so different as to have no intersection. In other words, there are no examples of explanations for bad behavior that are excuses, and vice versa. I simply offered three dictionary definitions where an excuse *is *an explanation. Shouldn’t just one example suffice?

[QUOTE=Trion]
Well, that’s fine. But I still don’t know what you’re getting at.
[/QUOTE]
My response to you was solely intended to show that excuses and explanations are not totally unrelated.

111

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
OK. How about this. “An excuse is an explanation of bad behavior, by definition.” Does that fly?
[/QUOTE]

Sure it flies. It’s irrelevant to the basis of the pitting, but yes, it flies.

The charge is that Whoopi is excusing Vick’s behavior simply by offering an explanation for it. The onus, therefore, is on those who are making this charge to show that her explanation is an excuse.

If you are taking the OP’s position, then I don’t see the point in trying to show that excuses are explanations. That’s besides the point. If you aren’t taking the OP’s position, arguing at length that excuses are explanations constitutes a hijacking of the thread to argue a point that no one is really contesting. Either way, it makes baby Jesus cry.

112

[QUOTE=you with the face]
The onus, therefore, is on those who are making this charge to show that her explanation is an excuse.
[/QUOTE]
In my opinion, it is an excuse because it is entirely exculpatory. She offers no explanation at all that attaches responsibility to Vick; she portrays him as, essentially, a victim of his upbringing. What she leaves out is as telling as what she says. If her goal were to explore the topic fully, surely she could have found reasons other than “that’s just the way they do things down there.”

113

One might say, “Ted Bundy murdered people because he was a sociopath.”

The is in explanation, not an excuse, by any reasonable interpretation.

I don’t see any substantive difference between this and what Goldberg said about Vick. What she said, in efect, was that Vick was a sadistic dog killer because he grew up among sadistic dog killers, that being the “culture” she referred to. I understand Miller’s reaction to your claim, and I agree with Miller. An explanation is NOT, by definition, an excuse.

114

[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
I understand Miller’s reaction to your claim, and I agree with Miller.
[/QUOTE]
If you agree with Miller, then you agree that no explanations are excuses, and no excuses are explanations. Do you?

Coolaroony! That’s not what I said, however, so I am confused by the reference.

115

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
Coolaroony! That’s not what I said, however, so I am confused by the reference.
[/QUOTE]

You most certainly did, in post 56.

116

[QUOTE=Miller]
You most certainly did, in post 56.
[/QUOTE]
What he said I said. *An explanation is NOT, by definition, an excuse.
*

What I actually said. And yes, explanations for bad behavior are excuses.

Can you not see the difference? I bolded it.

I have since amended it to.* An excuse is an explanation of bad behavior, by definition.*

You know, if you folks are going to excorciate me for my misdeeds, you at least need to get the facts straight, read the whole thread, and acknowledge when I make a change.

117

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
If you agree with Miller, then you agree that no explanations are excuses, and no excuses are explanations. Do you? Coolaroony! That’s not what I said, however, so I am confused by the reference.
[/QUOTE]

Ok, you said

That is equally incorrect.

Here is the online definition of the noun “excuse”:

  1. An explanation offered to justify or obtain forgiveness.
  2. A reason or grounds for excusing: Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.
    The act of excusing.
  3. A note explaining an absence.
  4. Informal An inferior example: a poor excuse for a poet; a sorry excuse for a car.

These all involve the concept of justification, or forgiveness, or of a pardon for bad behavior.

Here is the online definition of the noun "explanation:

  1. The act or process of explaining: launched into a detailed explanation.
  2. Something that explains: That was supposedly the explanation for their misdeeds.
  3. A mutual clarification of misunderstandings; a reconciliation.

I will grant this is a rather sucky definition, as it uses the term in the definition, but there is no such link to the the concepts that are associated with excuses: a justificatiom, forgiveness or a pardon.

Here are the contents of an online thesarus for “explanation”:
Something that serves to explain or clarify: clarification, construction, decipherment, elucidation, exegesis, explication, exposition, illumination, illustration, interpretation. Archaic: enucleation. See explain

Please note that “excuse” in NOT among the synonyms.

So. An explanation of bad behavior is NOT an excuse for that behavior. It MIGHT be, but not necessarily so. Your phrase “by definition”, is an imperatve that says it MUST be an excuse.

You are wrong.

118

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
What he said I said. *An explanation is NOT, by definition, an excuse.
*

What I actually said. And yes, explanations for bad behavior are excuses.

Can you not see the difference? I bolded it.
[/quote]

Yes, but the difference is trivial and unimportant. The objections raised to that statement apply equally, with or without the “for bad behavior” modifier.

That, actually, I have no objection to. Which I suppose counts as a partial recantation of my earlier, “they’re totally different” statement, if that makes you feel any better.

It’s spelled “excoriate,” you illiterate chowderhead.

119

Is it possible that this is just a semantic argument over the word “excuse”?

One can make an “excuse” for something and that doesn’t mean that it completely abrogates all responsibility for it. An excuse can just be a mitigating factor that one should take into consideration. Sounds to me like that was what she was going for with her statements.

120

[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
Ok, you said

That is equally incorrect.
[/QUOTE]
Can you possibly be fucking bothered to read the thread? Like, the post just above yours? I’ll wait for you. While you are at it, dueling dictionaries –

See the word “explain” anywhere in there? No? Look closer.