Ivygirl is 12. She was visiting Grandma and Grandpa for a couple of days, and went with Grandma for her twice-daily trek to Target. Of course, Ivygirl, being a Big Girl, went off by herself to the electronics section.
While there, she said, some guy came up behind her and patted her on the bottom.
So Ivygirl, understandably squicked out, runs to find Grandma, who immediately contacts Target management. They got a description of Creepy Guy and take her up and down the aisles to see if she can find him. She can’t.
Now, no harm done, and life lesson (Don’t run off from Grandma, and pitch a fit if someone touches you inappropriately) and we’re also not quite sure if it was deliberate or if Creepy Guy was just trying to squeeze by. But still… :dubious:
I wish she could have found the guy though. If he’s doing this to prepubescent girls alone in the electronic section of Target, who knows what he’s going to be doing six or twelve months from now.
So, keep an eye on the not-so-little ones. It can happen very quickly.
No, she’s not scarred for life, but I hope she got a healthy dose of Caution and Be Aware of Your Surroundings. She wanted to go back to the electronic section, because she wasn’t done perusing the selections therein.
ivygirl sounds like she’s going to be an ivywoman soon; maybe for Christmas or Solstice you can get her a single-use pepper spray canister for a keychain, or ask her if she’d like to take an aerobics course that includes a few self-defense moves? Sure, it’s probably overreacting, and you & I both know that making her paranoid is the wrong reaction. But suss out her feelings, and see if she’d feel safer with a little extra advantage.
p.s. Nobody over the age of 17 “just squeezes by” with a touch on the bottom. The shoulder is the only socially polite place to touch a stranger without any warning.
That guy was lucky he wasn’t found, that it wasn’t my daughter. I have no children, but I have nephews, and if I ever found out someone had “messed” with them in any way, they better hope to God the cops find them first. There isn’t anything bad enough you can do to folks who mess with kids.
Well, I don’t want to make too big of a deal of it, because there was no harm done, other than a “WTH” moment. But I do want to make sure she knows what to do if there is ever a next time.
I’m just concerned about what this guy might do next time.
Pepper spray has it’s use but if you use it in an inappropriate situation it’s assault. I suggest in addition to pepper spray a high itensity light. I have TheLadyLion carry a Surefire G2 with pepper spray in her hand when she leaves her office at night. It’s small enough to slip into a pocket but bright enough to temporarily blind someone even during daytime. I cannot keep my eyes open with one of these lights shinining my face. Often that can be enough to defuse a situation or make a ne’r-do-well retreat.
The best weapon is situational awareness. Teach your daughter to live in “yellow” where she is aware of everything going on around her.
Does the store have security cameras? Honestly, I don’t think it would be overreacting to involve the police - the guy might just be a harmless nutter, or he might be on the prowl with intentions that are quite nasty.
Nothing to add that hasn’t been said, except that it was smart, proper, and good that Target management took it seriously, and tried to track the person down. It isn’t inconceivable to me that they would say “sorry” and go on about their business.
Lobosang, I don’t mean to start a debate here but how could you use a laser effectively? You’ve got a pinpoint light that has to be on someone’s eye to have any effect. If you’re half an inch off target it’s nothing more than a harmless dot of light. Have you ever tried to do this on a moving target? This is going to be particularly difficult when you’re in a stressful situation. I think this is an idea that sounds good on paper but fails miserably in the real world. A laser also does not illumnate the target so you can identify it. Say you do manage to hit someone in the eye and they turn out to not be a threat. “Oh, it’s you Bob. Sorry about the retina damage.”
These aren’t ordinary flashlights. You can find them in most any gun shop. Find one and do a self demonstration by closing your eyes and shining one in your face. It’s like trying to look at the sun. The advantages are they are easy to use, effective, they illuminate and identify the target and if you identify a non-threat there is no more harm done than making a person squint for a few seconds.
If the G2 doesn’t do it for you get the BMF version, the E2 Defenser. Those projections on the bezel aren’t for decoration. A SDer decided to get one for herslelf aftger deciding that a firearm would be a bad choice for her. I just got one for myself and will be upgrading TheLadyLion to one soon.
Not necesarily. It only has to be in the general face area to be very uncomfortable. I have shone it near my face via a mirror and it is very uncomfortable.
Maybe it would fail, but in my experience it’s not difficult at all to hit a distant and/or moving target. It’s why lasers are such useful attachments for handguns. you’d be surprised how easy it is to be accurate with this, and it is a green laser not a red one, so it is MUCH brighter.
As I say, I have only entertained the idea. Unless my understanding of the word ‘entertain’ is wrong, that means I have only thought about it as a theoretical possibility. I would only attempt to use it if the threat was clear.
P.S. There’s also the fear-factor. An attacker would probably have heard stories of lasers blinding people, one very brief flash of the laser past the eyes or even the face would be enough to give an attacker a very clear message that he is in danger of blindness. If he wants to attack me he has to be able to see me. If he wants avoid the laser light he has to shield his eyes. He will find it difficult to do both.
As I say I have thought about this, and considered all the pros/cons. Not that I am arguing with you , Just selling the feasability of the idea.
Lobosang I’ll concede that it isn’t impossible for the laser to work as you describe. A xenon flashlight though has the distinct advantage of not requiring the subject to think, “gee that’s one o’ them there lasers, it could blind me.” The subject may also not come to that conclusion. The flashlight does an effective and immediate job of (temporarily) blinding the subject with no delay for the thought process. It also, and I can’t ephasize this enough, allows you to identify where and what the subject is and what he may be doing. If you are in the dark how can you shine a laser in someone’s face if you don’t first know where their face is? If you do manage to shine a laser in his face how do you know he isn’t holding a weapon of his own? How could you identify a subject to police if the only description you have is “he had a shiny green dot when I saw him.”
Xenon lights work in the real world, not just thought experiments. You can take several self defense courses in the use of these lights by themselves or in conjuntion with another weapon. I invite you to find a place that sells them and try one out for yourself to see how bright they are. The standard bulb in a surefire is brighter than a four D cell mag light and you can get an optinal bulb twice as bright as that. They are not intended to be used as everyday flashlights but as a specialized too.
In my experience there are very few places dark enough to present the problems you describe, and if there are, most people may not dare venture into them.
When in danger the thought process is a very quick thing. An attacker faced with a very bright laser is going to fear for his sight quicker than the time it would take to move mere inches nearer to you.
My thoughts about the laser are based on the idea that it is better than nothing at all. If I were mugged by a person with a gun (Unlikely where I live) I might have a better chance of surviving with the laser. And an even better chance if the attacker has only a knife.
Having said that I expect that flashlight probably is bright enough for the job, it might deter someone who wants to assault a young girl by bringing him unwanted attention (how can he slyly do something to the girl while she’s shining a bright light in his face and other people are watching)
Oh, I hope I never have a daughter. With all the graves I’d have to hide, and all the cleaning, I’d have to give my guns, I’d never be get anything done.
One minor correction, this happened yesterday, not today.
I did call the store manager, she said she would e-mail security, and not two minutes later Target security calls me. They are reviewing the tapes, hoping to find something substantial to turn over to the police. Security apologized to me for not catching the guy, and promised they would call me if they found anything on the tapes. He seemed very concerned and determined to catch Creepy Guy.
I love Target.
Ivygirl is fine, and asked me if after she screams and the guy runs off, if she should chase after him. I told her no, that while she is screaming she needs to get a good look at his face.
She’s currently cleaning her room. No harm done, but I do hope Target can find something on the security tapes.
On my planet the sun goes down every night and it gets dark. Not every place an honest person might go is well illuminated and some bad people take advantage of this fact.
Unfortunately that is not so. A common demonstration in firearms training is the Tueller drill. It shows that a conscious decision and action sequence isn’t very fast at all. The drill pits an attacker with a contact weapon, i.e. a knife, against a defender with a holstered gun. The standard for the drill is that the attacker can usually cover 21 feet before the defender can draw a weapon, aim and fire. The drill is done with blue plastic training guns and knives. Most people get the living shit scared out of them when they see how fast the instructor can cover the distance and “stab” them. I hold that the same is true for a subject that has to consciously think that a laser may damage his vision. With a high intensity flashlight that process is eliminated. Photons travel from light to subject at 186,000 miles per second. Nerve impulses travel from retina to brain to register “fucking ow!” almost immediately after causing subject to reflexivly close his eyes.
, Just selling the feasability of the idea.
Not every place an honest person might go is well illuminated and some bad people take advantage of this fact.