I think that there has only been 3 or 4 posts in this entire thread that have anything to do with the original topic. Talk about hijacks.
What scares me is that winglessangel02 (and thousands of others like him) is(*):
(1) eligible to vote for candidates running for public office,
(2) licensed to drive a motorized vehicle unsupervised on our streets and highways,
(3) Hi Opal!
(4) probably operates heavy machinery, power tools, and/or sharp knives at some time in his life,
(5) is legally allowed to reproduce, have children, and pass on his views to them
[SUB](* = Assuming, of course, that our pal is an adult of legal age, and not just some eight-year-old playing with mommy’s AOL account)[/SUB]
I don’t know about you, but I’m scared…
And as to winglessangel02’s claim “I have studied out the theory of evolution mroe than most evolutionists have,” I can only presume that he’s using the word “studied” as a shorthand for “reading Jack Chick pamphlets until I’ve memorized them all forwards and backwards.” 'cuz the stuff he’s tossing out sure ain’t evolution…
Okay, okay, airbeck, I did a little bit of research on your OP. There is a ton of creationist curriculum out there. Most of it is aimed at the homeschooled, but a lot of homeschooling curriculum is used at fundamentalist parochial schools. The little blurbs I read seemed to indicate that “creation science” indeed consists of nothing but bible reading and attempts to debunk evolution. Most of the sites offer curriculum material for sale and, obviously, my dedication to answering your question did not extend to pulling out my credit card. However, I was able to find onecreationist site with a free curriculum to download. Look and learn. I downloaded it, but haven’t read it yet. Psst, Phil? I’ll print it out and we can add it to the post-hot-tub BBQ in May.
One last thing, I just have to ask. winglessangel? Were you homeshooled?
Ok, airbeck,I tried to read my download, but it apparently aborted itself midway or something. So, I went back to the same site and found this – an outline of the 6th grade creation science curriculum. It gives a pretty good idea of how creation would be taught. Depressing, but you asked for it.
By the way, I do know that the plural of curriculum is curricula. Really. But the board was slow, and I didn’t hit ‘preview’ Sheesh. How embarrassing to be grammatically sloppy and careless while I was accusing someone else of being ignorant. Is there a blushing smilie?
So basicly, evolution is a lie because it isn’t explained in the Bible? Is that why it is a “lie”? The Bible was written for a much simpler people a long time ago. Would any of them have been able to understand it if it was included in the Bible? If the bible explained genetics and DNA and natural selection etc. they would never have been able to comprehend it. You have to view the Bible in the context that it was written. Not everything in it applies today. The Bible is not supposed to be nailed over your eyes so that you can’t see the world for what it is. Did Jesus want his followers to be close-minded and ignorant?
Ok, you know what, and I know this will make you feel soooo great, but this will be my last post on this particular board. The reason being because I came here to find out answers to some of my statements and to be able to understand what evolutionists believe more deeply. For those
of you who did not read my last message, you people are the ones who CARE about evolution. I was tlaking about myself being more educated in it than the AVERAGE COMMON evolutionist who just accepts the belief cause it sounds more plausible than creationism.
To answer a question, NO I was NOT homeschooled. I have been in both Public and Private schools.
Ok, you wouldnt fight for my freedom of speech and right to teach in school, but I would. If soemone were trying to take your right to teach it, I would fight for it. But, I dont believe that Creationism necessarily HAS to be a “Christian” thing as you say. You can believe a God created the world and universe and all that but not ever become a Christian. The term Christian is defined as Christ LIKE. That does not include the Pope, Jessie Jackson, Muhammed, Bill Clinton, Lewis Meyers, anyone other than those who live their lives to BE LIKE CHRIST and are saved born again Christians. Not every saved believer is a Christian. We TRY to be Christians. So therefore, Creationism is not necessarily a Christian religious teaching.
Well, I have filtered my thoughts about your name-calling antics. I will not be returnign her ebecause you all have a serious problem with childish name-calling. I am younger than probably half of you. I am not an 8 years old. I am 17. Yes, young, but I have studied under some of the smartest theologians, scientists, and speculators out there. Maybe things I took as being facts about evolution were hear-say but I say only what i was taught.
Forgive me for offending you in any way and causing you to resorted to the childish name-calling you have resorted to on this board.
Well, I will leave now. Have a good day and a good life and may God Bless!
BTW! Im a GIRL. Not a boy.
A quick “hi-jack” getting back to the original topic, that link to the site with the creationist curriculum is truly frightning. One phrase caught my mind, closer to the bottom of the page: “Baloney Detectors”. Wasn’t that a section of Carl Sagan’s The Demon-Haunted World about detecting pseudoscience versus rigorous factual knowledge? How ironic.
Creationism is a religious thing. What religion is not important. Because of that it has no place in public schools. If you want creation as described in the Bible to be taught, then you have to teach every creation story from every religion. Is that what you want? Because that is the only way that it can be taught without the state showing religious favoritism. Would you want your children being taught the Hindu version of creationism as well? I didn’t think so.
Once again, getting back to the OT. It seems to me that “teaching” creationism involves little more than the simple gainsaying of evolution and all of the associated evidence, that evolution is a lie and you will be damned to hell if you believe that blasphemy, common sense be damned! That just seems petty, close-minded and ignorant to me.
Science is not anti-God! Every damned time we as as species learn something about the way the world and the universe works the same damn thing happens. Religious establishment labels it as blasphemy and evil lies. It happened when we found out that the world was round. It happened when we found out that the earth is not the center of the Universe. It happened when we found out that the Sun is not the center of the Universe. It happened with evolution. The Bible is not the Encyclopedia. There are things about us, our world and our universe that are not in the Bible. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t true!
Ignoring your sarcasm, good riddance. You came here to belittle those of us who do not believe your religious views. Not a good way to expand your knowledge.
One doesn’t find an answer to a statement. Questions have answers; statements are, by their very nature, statements. And folks aren’t “evolutionists.” They’re “folks who understand the scientific method and the theories (in the scientific definition of the word) it proposes and supports.” My money is that you were looking for fodder in statements here by other people to use as ammo in your misguided attempt to “convert the godless evolutionists!”
No; we are the ones who care about Science. The Bible is not a science textbook.
No. You were intentionally misleading people with a claim to an education you do not have. The “average common” scientist, being a scientist, already has more education than you, you apparently being in the 11th or 12th grade. And evolution doesn’t “sound more plausible.” It is supported by the scientific evidence.
Any of them any good?
One does not have a right to preach in school. That’s what “creationism” is: a religious dogma, and therefore it’s preaching. You have every right to teach in the public schools once you’ve studied the required courses, obtained the required degree, and received the proper credentials. Failing that, you not only do not have the right to teach there, but you also do not have the ability.
WRONG! You, and many of the creationists, are fighting against evolution being taught in the schools because it offends your faith.
Now please explain about the folks who just don’t believe any of this. What’s your take on the Hindu creation story? The Aztec creation story? The Japanese creation story? I’m especially anxious to hear your support of teaching that the sun is really a goddess!
AND YET AGAIN, A FLAMING FUNDIE PRONOUNCES WHO IS AND WHO IS NOT A CHRISTIAN! (YES, I’M SHOUTING AND, UNLIKE ROBIN WILLIAMS, I DO KNOW WHY!)
As opposed to yours?
I doubt that’s the real reason.
Doesn’t the Bible say something in the OT about how to treat a youngster who’s rude to his elders?
Names, please. Otherwise, this will seem as factual as the bit about you studying evolution more than real scientists have.
Already disproven.
???
First: Hear-say isn’t fact. Pay attention in class next term, please.
Second: Then you were taught badly.
What’s offensive is your, and other fundies’, incessant attempts to force your religion on my child!
I’m already having a good life. Mostly that’s because I follow the guidance contained in the Book of Mormon. Yet I have not ever forced that tome’s precepts on another person. Would that you, and the other fundies, would treat the Bible with the same estee.
So you didn’t pay a lot of attention in English class either, I guess? “He” is often used to mean “he or she” when the speaker or author does not know the sex of the person to whom referred. A good example is: “Each student shall store his books in his assigned locker.” This also includes female students.
Get back to us after you learn the language, at least; preferably after you also learn the actual Theory of Evolution.
winglessangel02, I don’t think anyone wants you to leave this board but maybe this wasn’t the best topic to dive into first. The straight dopers are tolerant of a lot of beliefs here but the we demand critical thiking from our peers. Appeal to authority, “the bible says so,” is not a valid argument. That particularly won’t work with non-Christians and doesn’t work with some Christians like myself. I believe the broad truth of the bible and the message of Christ but genesis isn’t exactly a blueprint to the universe.
Princhester wrote:
BRICKBAT LINGERIE!!
(This reference is worth 3 net.points .)
Monty wrote:
And the use or non-use of the “gender neutral ‘he’” is enough of a hot-button topic for its own Great Debate…
Winglessangel02, I’d echo the sentiment that you not leave this board yet. I mean, look at what you’ve done in your short time–you’ve posted to a thread about evolution, and you claim to have great knowledge about evolution. Based on this claim (which I think has been demonstrated to be “shaky” at best, and I’m being nice here), you called everyone else wrong. Not the best tact.
Why don’t you re-read your posts, re-read the responses, and then pick out one issue. Instead of saying, “You’re all wrong about everything!” you could try saying “I was taught that carbon dating is unreliable. Different tests done by different parts give different answers, tests on different parts of a same FOSSIL give different answers, etc. How do you explain this?”
I think that if you try this new approach, you’ll learn much, much more. This board has some very intelligent posters. They’re just not always the most patient.
One more thing you have to understand is, and I don’t mean this in an insulting manner, they’ve heard it all before. I can guarantee you that you’re not going to post an argument that the Teeming Millions here haven’t heard. From your perspective, you’re thinking, “Wow, I was up all night contemplating the stuff about the thickness of the moon dust being hundreds of feet!” From their perspective, you should have done your homework and searched the archives.
So, finally, I entreaty you, Winglessangel02, to take a break, if you’d like, but not abandon this message board. It’s a tremendous resource, and I expect that it can offers answers entirely different from what you’ve heard for your entire life. The rest of you guys–hey, play nice.
Quix
winglessangel–I am sorry that some members of this board responded derisively to your posting. You have to understand that the people in this forum are brought together by their desire to “fight ignorance”, and the “science” put forth by those trying to assert the inaccuracy of the Bible is one of the more grating examples of ignorance existing today.
When you say that you have “studied the subject more than most evolutionists”, we understood “evolutionists” to mean the scientists who study the phenomenon. Obviously you were using it to mean the opposite of “creationist”, or someone who believes in evolution in general. In this regard, I don’t doubt that you have done more reading on the subject than Joe Average, but your reading has been rather unfortunately misguided.
Regarding entropy: if you put an acorn into the ground under the right conditions, it will grow into a tree. Is that not progressing to a “more ordered state”? This is possible due to energy from the sun. The amount of “order” created in the growing tree is exceeded by the amount of “order” lost in the chemical reactions in the sun that created the energy. So the second law is preserved. Evolution is a product of natural processes such as these, driven by energy from the sun.
If you understand that idea, then hopefully you won’t argue that evolution violates the 2nd LOT again. When one of your friends at church, your classmates, or someone on a message board makes a similar argument, you can tell them why their understanding is mistaken. If you still make the same argument, or allow someone else to do so unchallenged, you are being dishonest.
That’s the problem with most proponents of creationism; they have had these arguments refuted time and again, yet they continue to make them. That is dishonesty, which is one of the least Christian traits I can imagine.
The rest of your post shows that your understanding of evolution in general is severely lacking. There’s nothing wrong with that–it’s where we all start. Still, it’s not a good idea to jump into a discussion like this one with such a poor understanding. I, for one, know next to nothing about the conflicts in the Middle East. If I stormed into a discussion on the subject in here and asserted my authority, knowing full well that many members of this board are experts in those issues, and then made ridiculously erroneous statements, wouldn’t you expect everyone to give me a hard time about it? Wouldn’t I deserve it?
I hope you stay around; the fact that you found this board says a lot about your desire to learn. Be sure to check out http://www.talkorigins.org , where you can learn more than you ever wanted to know about evolution.
(I realize this post is probably just as well thrown in the fire; that’s OK, I’m just trying to bank some good karma before tomorrow’s neurology final. See, faith does have its place in the sciences. 
)
Dr. J
From the site Jess pointed out, I present the following pearl of wisdom:
So you can’t come to believe in evolution and remain a Christian! Sorry Poly, looks like you and the Pope are out of luck. :rolleyes:
Well, Mars Horizon, I’ll buy you both a drink the next time the three of us (you, me, and the Pope) are together.
Truly, I find it fascinating the way some fundamentalists and related conservative Christians fixate on the Bible’s literality (or some of it, anyway), as if God were somehow to be discounted if it were somehow disproven to them. (It is, of course, disproven to almost anyone with a fifth grader’s powers of data analysis.)
And, on the other hand, there are people (our own JAB regrettably among them, who seem to feel that the disproof of Scriptural literality therefore disproves God.
I have a standing bargain with David B. that when I show him Jesus in the flesh, or reasonable facsimile, he will agree that there’s something to my faith premises. (I sincerely hope to carry out that mission one of these days ;))
Mars Horizon:
It doesn’t say that you can’t be a Christian and accept Evolution. What it says is scarier: Well, even if evolution is true we cannot teach it to kids because God is not obvious enough in it, and it may turn some away from the faith.
Frankly I think they should focus more on the hypocrisy, judgemental attitudes and cliqueism (?) in Christian Schools. That probably turns more kids away than Science. (And I am speaking as a Christian!)
Why do you think so many Christians call themselves “sheep” and refer to Jesus as their “shepherd”?
[SUB]I swear, someday it’s going to be revealed that Christianity was all a big mind-control scheme started by the Illuminati or somesuch… :)[/SUB]
Now now, rjung, we all know that the Illuminati wasn’t formed untul 1776.
(Or at least, that’s what they want us to believe…)
OK you guys, I am sorry. Sorry for expressing my views, as all of you have done so freely. I will no longer state MY views. I will NOT leave the board. But, in return for not “preaching” my views, I ask that there be no name-calling. The term “closed minded and ignorant” does not apply to me. You may think it does and yes, sometimes my posts may sound a little of that way, but I do accept that you will NOT ever become a Creationist. But, I am sorry for judging your beliefs.
Yes, I do know that “he” is the gender neutral pronoun. I was just clarifying that I am a girl and that u now know. I am not completely ignorant. (meant as a joke, haha)
Ok, time for a question. Somebody tell me, without a necessary upheaval, where is the Geologic Column?
Ok, you asked whom I have studied under that are great Theologians:
Dr. Albert Garner
Dr. Rick Adams
Dr. Mickey Carter
Dr. Robert Ogden
Dr. Jack Hyles
Dr. Clyde Lanier
Dr. Bill Prevatte
There is a list of the tops of them. Many others I could have listed but at the same time, This post would have been too long. As far as the OT statign how to treat elders, a child in the OT if he was not obedient or treated his elder with disrespect, was taken out of the sity and stoned to death. That was the Law. When Jesus came, he said that He had coem to “fulfill the law” therefore, the Jewish Old Testament law was done away with when hHe died on the cross and rose the third day. Therefore the law no longer applies.
Just a tidbit of info for ya there.
I hope that you all can please forgive me of past offenses and forget the things I have said in heated posts preceeding this one. I realize I said a lot of things I shouldnt have, and I am sorry.
Well, I’ll go now…