To those defending this hateful bitch (Shodan, grienspace, Jodi etc…): Fuck off!!
Where the hell do you get the gall to claim anyone is attacking her? This fucking waste of skin jumps into discussions that have nothing to do with her prejudices, refuses to debate, and brings nothing here but ignorance.
Because God leads her to do so. Fun, huh? What was it you called it: “the cast-iron response”. Damn. That’s one hell of a verbal brick wall. Ends meaningfull communication instantly. Impressive. But I must inquire, futile as it may seem: I, as a third pary, meet two people who say the same. Suppose these two folks have contradicting opinions? Who am I to believe? I must question and analyze after all. Apparently, this should be a continuous process, as no one (athesits and agnostics included) can reach a definitive level of evidence for any particular god’s existance (or lack thereof).
His4Ever, when you throw up this type of brick wall you do yourself and those of us who hunger for truth and knowledge a disservice. You come here to this place where most of us come to better our knowledge and continually learn from others (including those who share your belief in the holiness of that book). Then you try to halt that thought process with your little “I know God’s true will” attitude. Well “I believe it and that’s that.” is not the be-all-end-all argument you think it is. If that’s where your ability to be open to other human being ends, fine. Don’t begrudge those of us who choose to broaden our horizons and test our knowledge against the world with an open mind.
I hate a pile-on, but you did ask. I’m not trying to be mean. I am a big fan of the Judeo/Christian belief in loving other humans. I also like the humility that’s written in. The evidence I have seen has led me to think it’s all mythology, but that’s not to say that there are not important lessons to be learned. As others have pointed out here, you seem to be cursed with a kind of pride that holds your beliefs to be more true than those of others. You should not use your faith to judge others as bad (free range homosexuals, pagan Catholics, etc.). It should only be a basis for love and humility as I read it. You express those qualities less then you express pride, anger, and a bad case of “the judgemental”'s. I point these things out not to hurt you, but in hopes that you will see through my eyes and learn to deal with these “sins”. A human who can admit a mistake and learn from it is wise indeed. Let truth be your guide.
May The Force be with you. (I’m a registered Jedi)
DaLovin’ Dj
Nope. I don’t think we should get off her back as long as she’s spreading lies.
To touch on your Jew/Trinity analogy, I’m Jewish. I don’t get the Trinity especially in light of the Sh’ma (“Hear o Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One”). Every method I’ve tried to use to understand it (“God sometimes wears his Jesus hat, but other times wears hsi Father hat or holy Spirit hat” or “Egg, yolk, shell: each is 1/3d of an egg, but put 'em together, it’s a whole egg”) I’ve been told are wrong.
That’s cool. I don’t have to understand it to accept that you and Polycarp and DDG and other Christians do understand it and accept it and have reconciled it with the notion of an indivisible God.
But even if I didn’t know and respect you, I still wouldn’t spread around the “fact” that you guys are polytheists 'cause it ain’t true.
How would you feel if I started going around saying that you, Jodi were a polytheist?
Good ol’ H4E (who seemed to have missed my post. I’m still waiting for your promised repudiation of Jack Chick, H4E) is, after being told the facts about other religions is still spreading her lies. Either she’s stupid or a liar…which one I leave as an excercise for the student.
What would you say, *Jodi, if H4E started spreading around as “fact”, crap from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Would you still say “I mean, what the hell do you guys want – for her to lie and say she doesn’t believe something she does?” because if you did, my answer would be “Yeah. I do want her to either lie about her beliefs or keep her mouth shut rather than spread lies further.”
Fenris
And also with you. 
His4Ever, I’ve been hangin’ around this board for many moons and believe or not, the posters in these related threads are sincerely trying to help you out here. I always like to see someone (including myself) learn something from the masses here, and I’m sure there is still hope for your enlightenment.
If you really look at the time and effort the posters have put into these threads, you have to realize there is more at work here than simple disagreement and name calling.
I mean, Christ Almighty, look at the contribution gobear and others put into that GD thread all in the name of fighting ignorance! That’s very cool in my book (not the bible, but you know, that book everyone has).
If all you get out of these discussions is that this board is full of meanies and megalomaniacs, then you just haven’t been here long enough to see the other 20 percent. :eek:
-LC
So you admit that no amount of proof will ever convince you that you are wrong?
Oh yeah. God loves you. You must be one of his very special children.
What? His4ever promised to repudiate Jack Chick? Well what more do you want? Isn’t that a repudiation in itself? Perhaps she is writing an article criticizing Chick in the weekly newsletter of her church. That certainly would be more useful than “preaching to the converted”.
entity, welcome to the SDMB. I think you’ll find that the “sharp-tongued” are particularly welcome in The Pit, the place for flames on the SDMB. I think you’ll find that many posters here (by no means all, or even the majority) resort to being “sharp-tongued” towards other posters only after their reasoned arguments have been met with the equivalent of another plugging their ears and going, “lalala.” Like H4E has done.
It’s only people getting impatient while fighting ignorance, the stated mission of the Straight Dope.
I do agree that sometimes it’s a shame. Often it’s hilarious. And in other cases, such as this one, where H4E started this thread to whine about people objecting to her refusal to back her assertions with anything besides “I believe it because it’s the Word of God” (and other “arguments” of that nature), it is what has been referred to as “Dope Slapping.” H4E has been treated rather delicately considering the obtuseness of her “debating” style. Perhaps it’s because most of the posters responding to her have the hope that she, or a lurker with H4E’s opinions might open their mind. I have seen far worse savaging over far less. In my observation, this is the norm for the SDMB.
Regarding manners: There is no way someone can make a blanket condemnation of a group of people (Catholics, Jews, gays, blacks, women, men, whatever) in these fora and not get some outrage expressed, either courteously, or with an outright, “Fuck you, bigot!” The only problem I have with the rude response is that the bigot then has an easier time whining about persecution because of the naked anger expressed with a “Fuck you!” Well, tough shit. If someone chooses to debate, especially in Great Debates, they better be prepared to back up their assertions, or they can expect to get reamed.
As of yet, I’ve seen exactly zero evidence that H4E has chosen to debate.
Bull Shit you ignorant motherfucker. She stated explicitly that she has no disagreements with any chick tracts.
I am unable to locate the exact quote, but if you aren’t being disengenuous about this you are an idiot. Nevermind the exact quote, look at the context of what she is saying- Catholics aren’t Christian because they worship saints. Even if you want to give her the benefit of the doubt (which she doesn’t deserve) You must admit that the context says she means worship in the context of worshipping a god, which is not what Catholics do.
What the fuck is wrong with those of you defending this waste of humanity? She is spreading vile, hateful lies about others. You can not defend the truth of her statements any more than she can so you claim she is being “attacked”. Funny thing about this "attack, none of us “mean spirited” people started a pit thread dedicated to her, she did that all by herself.
Well that is not really entirely true is it. self-organizing entity said
That condemnation of faith has been expressed repeated by various posters particularly in regard to the Christian religion. Should those of us of faith demand that self-organizing entity " and others who’ve expressed a like minded view ''better be prepared to back up their assertions, or they can expect to get reamed?" I don’t really see anyone motivated enough to reply “Fuck you, bigot”
Quite so. It is extemely simple to become offended in a debate.
Your faith in Christ is a path you choose not a license to judge the human race. Learn.
grienspace, I am not a Catholic, nor was I raised as a Catholic; I am an atheist or agnostic or something along those lines. My husband is a ‘lapsed’ Catholic, and all of his family are Catholics - my understanding of Catholic saints comes from these sources. My interpretation may conflict with that of those on this board intimate with Catholicism, but it does provide another POV from which to consider the matter, and therefore may be useful.
Catholics feel that those who live lives exhibiting exceptional devotion to the God of their religion should be honored, and pointed out as examples of what is admirable. After they are dead (which means that they remained loyal to those beliefs to the very end), they are honored by having ‘sainthood’ bestowed upon them.
This is helpful in guiding and advising living Catholics. Many Christians rely on “What Would Jesus Do?” to guide their choices/decisions, but some are discouraged by this because they feel that, as the son of God, Jesus had special insight/incentive/strength, etc., not available to the ordinary person, that supported him in times of doubt and when facing difficult choices. Catholics, however, have an entire roster of once-living, perfectly ordinary humans to point to as evidence that extraordinary things can be done by garden-variety human beings. IMO, this is the primary purpose of having saints - to provide real-life examples for other Catholics to emulate.
Many saints are known for their involvement in a particular issue or activity - perhaps fighting injustice, feeding the hungry, or caring for the ill or injured. These were there primary interests in life; isn’t it logical to expect that they would still be interested in these matters after death? (Remember, only their bodies are dead; the core of their beings still exists in Heaven.) So, certain saints are said to be a ‘patron’ saint of certain matters, as it is thought that they still closely monitor developments in those areas from their place in Heaven.
Because of their exceptional devotion, saints are thought to especially favored by God, sort of a ‘teacher’s pet’ whose judgement God trusts and who God is likely to indulge if they present a special request. Instead of praying directly to God about everything, Catholics may choose to pray to a saint, particularly a patron saint of whatever they are concerned about, and ask them to intercede on their behalf - that is, to present the prayer’s request to God with a note saying that, in the saint’s opinion, the request is legitimate and deserved. Please re-read the formal prayers you posted and see if that is not, indeed, what they are saying.
I don’t see this as any different from someone standing up in church, or posting on a message board, asking other Christians to pray for their mother because she has cancer or some such thing. ‘Prayer’ is not ‘worship’, is it? I was under the impression that it was just a way of talking to God, saying ‘Thanks’ or asking for a favor, and the Catholics simply extend it to include talking to other inhabitants of Heaven.
SDMB Catholics, please jump in here and tell me if I’ve badly misunderstood/misrepresented the matter. I genuinely appreciate being corrected when I’m wrong. No, really, I do! Honest!
actually, I have seen several threads on these boards defending the “I find all religions foolish and their advocates tiresome” assertion.
if there is more than 1 valid religion, then there can be an infinite number of valid religions. If 1 can be invalid, all can be.
(to allow that all “religions” ‘count’ is to assert that religion is irrelevant - do the faithful really want to follow that line of thought?)
It is a legitimate position to say ‘feh to all of you’.
can the religious community really be considered a ‘group’ to be offended?
since the religious take such pride in condeming each other, I find the thought of them all rising as one to proclaim ‘fuck you, bigot’ to an atheist rather amazing.
and yes, the “you’d better believe, or else” bit IS tiresome
Grienspace
IMHO, the difference here is that self-organizing entity stated that in his opinion, “he finds all religions foolish, and their advocates tiresome”. That is different than stating that it is God’s word that all homosexuals are going to hell.
I’ve also seen those atheists who state “all people of faith are idiots” pitted and reamed as well.
My opinion, not that anyone cares, is that religion is a fine thing but one that should be kept to oneself. If you don’t tell me that I’m going to hell if I don’t follow your deity of choice then I won’t call you a narrowminded twit with too much time on their hands.
Monty, not sure if you’re agreeing with me or not, but if I see someone post to Great Debates, I (reasonably in my view) assume they are there to debate, however shoddy their technique is. 
**
**Jodi, Homebrew, gobear,**and others expressed outrage courteously toward H4E’s unsubstantiated assertions. Most notably, Kirkland and lissener took the “Fuck you, bigot” route.
Yes, and for the record, I am an atheist.
Patience, Grasshopper, patience.
Now that was in response to a prompt from one fundie to another "Do you consider some sects non-christian?
DOES SHE SAY CATHOLICS AREN’T CHRISTIAN ? Does she ever say it?
Why do you have to be such an asshole. Do you feel superior by running her down. Do you have to spread lies about her. Oh I know your feeding off of what others have said, but you’ve done nothing to confirm it for yourself you little shit. And when I catch you at it that makes me the motherfucker? You can’t find the smoking gun quote , and I can’t find it . No one else can find it either. Oh what a tangled web we weave when we endeavour to deceive. Oh, you say you’re doing your bit to fight ignorance. Yeah sure, just hound it off and make it go away. Very effective. Very mature. Bet it makes you feel better right? You’re finally part of the in crowd now aren’t you. Motherfucker!
You know we finally have a true blue genuine Jerry Falwell style fundamentalist participating in the SDMB. What a great opportunity to educate. We must have some teachers here. Is the SDMB response to His4ever likely to succeed? Is misrepresention and angry profinity (I gave up on ** grendel72**) the intelligent way to go? I’m afraid the only impression that His4ever will leave here with is what a den of iniquity the SDMB is.
Now Monty what is there for His4ever to debate? It’s that ex-LDS author’s word against the Mormon dopers of this thread. How is she expected to declare authoritatively one way or another. I trust you, but His4ever has been around for a very short time and doesn’t really know you yet. And don’t forget that His4ever merely responded to a questionaire regarding beliefs. Perhaps the questionaire should have been in IMHO, but thats debatable.I just don’t see an obligation to debate there. I do think you’ve got her thinking though.
This is the worst fucking train wreck of a thread I’ve ever seen. I can’t keep track of who’s fighting who, what they’re arguing about, or who’s winning. What are there now twelve different sides to six different arguements? Is somebody keeping score here? Can I at least get a body count?
stares in horrific facination at the twisted wreckage
Coosa, all around excellent discussion of the Catholic understanding of the Communion of Saints. Only quibble is that, in order to be sure to differentiate between veneration and worship, most involved-in-apologetics Catholics in English speaking countries use the more accurate “petition” regarding conversation with saints over the accurate but vaguely-related-to-worship “prayer.” Many people naturally associate prayer with worship, though in its broadest definition it includes any time you ask anyone for anything (remember, people used to “pray” to courts in legal pleadings).
Smegma, I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to fuck His4Ever.
Grien, in this very thread His4Ever said:
IE, she has never seen anything she disagrees with in a Jack T. Chick tract. And she has been quizzed, in the GD, about his position on Catholicism, so she is well aware of it (and I and many others recall her saying explicitly that she agreed with his position on Catholicism, though its not worth the effort at 2am to go digging around in all her crap to find that one post). Yet she has not rebuked the Jackster. So we must assume that, by her own statement, she agrees with his lies that:
And that’s just the Jackster horseshit that I recall off the top of my head. By her own words, she agrees with this crap, or else she would have rebuked this asshole in one of the numerous opportunities she has been offered.
Oh wait, I found the point where "His"4Ever said she agrees with the Chickster.
On the first page of the “Welcome His4Ever” thread in the GD, she befouled the net with these words:
Boy, you must not have looked very hard. So she says she agrees with Chick and his lies (some of which I’ve listed above). She claims that Catholics worship Mary, she misrepresents the Catholic teaching on submission to the pope and Purgatory, and that’s all in one very large paragraph. Funny that you didn’t find it.
Kirk
from this thread:
in regards to Chick’s tracts. Until she says otherwise, that would include this tract.
Quote from the tract:
originally posted by Kirkland1244
2. Smegma, I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to fuck
His4Ever.
snort,giggle,heh
But I meant it metaphorically…oh
[Emily Littella]never mind[/Emily Littlella]