Sopranos - 4/16

Cafe Society
21

Yeah – when he said that about the phone call, I was like, “That’s the smartest thing he’s said in years! Maybe ever!”

Vito has (had) a goumada? Man, he tried so hard to keep up the facade.

Finn at the “social club” was priceless. Between his demeanor and Tony telling him, in such soothing tones, to go out front and get whatever he wanted to eat, it was like a six-year-old telling a cop and a psychologist how he’d been molested.

Zsofia, I think the incident you’re thinking of was last season. Janice was at Bobby’s daughter’s soccer game, got into a dispute with either the ref or another mom, and did indeed get tackled by the cops. Tony was furious, but Bobby wasn’t, on the grounds that Janice claimed she’d been defending “her daughter”. As opposed to “her stepdaughter.”

Maybe not so much understanding as suppressing dissent among the ranks. He usually does do that; can’t have his guys turning on each other.

22

It seems the widow Bonpensiero has advanced from a mob wife to an actual member of organized crime (although she’s obviously not a “made man”, not being a man and all). I think Carmella is inspired by this, and would like to have a more active role in Tony’s Family life, and not just his family life. Whether Tony will allow this to happen is anybody’s guess.

I loved Tony’s line about how his men would demand head - then quickly corrects himself and says, “his head”. Another hilarious scene is just after Tony promotes that one guy to Vito’s former job. The look on Silvio’s face as he tries to find the best way to put his thoughts into words is priceless. Another great Silvio moment was when he declared bluntly that Vito’s wife was not getting laid. But even better than that, in my opinion, was Tony’s imaginary violin while Meadow describes the troubles of her clients. It was a somewhat serious scene, and I sympathize with what Meadow was saying, but Tony had me in stiches.

I think this episode did a fairly good job of balancing the serious and the humorous. On the one hand, it’s funny to see Vito suddenly drawn into an antiques store and show his natural affinity for pottery. On the other hand, I recognize that this is a sign that Vito has chosen a path that can lead only to one of two outcomes: He lives free, or he dies. It’s tragic and humorous at the same time. (It’s even more complicated than that, since Vito is still a mobster. I have sympathy for his plight, but that sympathy is mitigated by his immoral occupation.) Back when I was laughing at Vito for breaking a chair (4th season?), I had no idea he’d become such an interesting character.

This is a long-shot, but does anyone else remember when Christopher had his vision of the afterlife, and gave Tony and Paulie the warning about three o’clock? And remember approximately what time of the day Vito called Silvio? This is most likely either (1) a coincidence, or (2) the writers deliberately messing with us fans. But it’s also possible that we’re supposed to pay attention to this. What if Tony’s defense of Vito is what ultimately leads to his undoing? (Or salvation?)

It’s interesting how Tony is handling the Vito situation. He’s clearly taking an unpopular stance, but he is also (at least apparantly) strong and in control. He points out that Vito was one of his top earners, and a very capable capo. When someone says that Vito has to go, Tony asks if they’re prepared to take care of Vito’s kids. (He thus quickly makes a moral analogy between his own family and someone else’s family. For a mob boss, that’s progress!)

23

:smiley:

And when Vito was in the diner, am I reading too much into the (apparently gay) proprietor saying “All our sausages are made in-house”?

I don’t get Meadow’s last line in that scene. When Carmella says she voted for Bush, Meadow says, “So you don’t relate to black people clinging to logs.” Does that tie in with what she said about Bush using 9/11 as an excuse to infringe on freedoms? Or is it referring back to how her firm’s clients got to America? In any case, WTF?

Also, regarding the scene with Melfi. Sometimes people stay in therapy past the point where they need it. They keep going out of habit, or for the companionship, or the entertainment value. I think now, we’re seeing Tony with Melfi for the exposition.

24

It was Paulie he asked, which made it doubly hilarious as Paulie’s hatred of parting with a buck is well-documented.

VCNJ~

25

Could be a reference to New Orleans although that image is a little off.

26

Well, there is of course the possibility that Vito will go into witness protection, which could lead to the downfall of Tony and/or others. In that case, that 3 a.m. phone call would signify the beginning of the end for Tony.

I think if I were Vito I’d be getting farther away than New Hampshire. I mean out-of-the-country farther away. He’s got a load of cash, so why not move somewhere far, far away? That’s his best chance for survival, I think. Otherwise, it’s only a matter of time before he’s found.

27

I was fairly sure it was a reference to Katrina, ie, another Bush screwup. Meadow apparently seems to subscribe to the Kanye West explination that Bush doesn’t care about black people and let them rot.

Though, I say, I feel sorry for Finn. Imagine being in his place. And Meadow definately needed to hear that. You can’t be a liberal do-gooder and then sweep your dad’s mob business under the rug.

28

We aren’t sure how long he’s planning on staying. We don’t know if the car has been fixed yet (if it was more than just a busted tire).

29

I really liked this episode.
The scene between Tony and Christopher about the arab guys was quite possibly my favorite scene ever on the show.

I also thought it was unwise for Vito to stay in the town (if that’s what happens) but then I realized tht in season one Tony found that guy who was in the witness protection program not that far from Jersey, purely by accident. Vito could live in New Hampshire and probably not have to worry too much about hiding as long as he didn’t do something stupid like win the lottery or end up on the news. Especially if he is able to find out from his wife, or Sil or someone that there’s no hit out on him.

You know I must say, Mrs. former Big Pussy, is kind of hot for an older gal.

And the actress who plays Mrs. Vito, she’s really familiar. She’s Lorraine Braccho’s sister I heard but what movies has she been in?

I’m guessing since the Rusty hit is taking so long, and getting a bit of build up, that things won’t go easy with the tailors from Naples.

30

I’m thinking that’s a good guess. Probably could fuel the story as the season ends.

31

I predict that Phil whacks Vito. That was classic pyschopath Phil in the conversation with Vito’s wife. He starts with saying he wants to tear Vito limb from limb, then when Mrs. Spatafore gives him the, “He wasn’t so bad, he was a good father” bit, he turns into, “Just let me know where he is, so we can bring him back and help him.”

Yeah, right. This also eliminates a tough plot line to resolve–i.e., how does Tony deal with the Vito issue without crossing a line that will make the viewer lose their twisted affection for Tony. It also creates another interesting plot line. If Phil kills a made guy from another family for a transgression that Vito’s own boss forgave, what happens next? Hmm.

32

And who knew Tony was a fan of “The L Word.” I loved when he asked Dr. Melfi if Jennifer Beals was a “dyke in real life.” And I loved when Sil brought Vito “backstage passes.”

How I think this might go…

So New York and New Jersey are both looking for Vito…who will find him first? My money is on NY. I’m pretty sure Phil got a tip from Vito’s wife (also Phil’s cousin) as to where Wide Guy might be hiding as she knows he has family in New Hampshire.

If Phil finds Vito first, he’ll be dead for sure for hurting his cousin like that. If Vito gets whacked by New York - regardless of whatever plans Tony and the gang might have for him, he’s still a made guy and it’ll be just the thing that could ignite the powderkeg between the families to start an all-out war.

That’s the only reason I can see for Chase & Company to spend so much time on this Vito storyline… it has to tie into a bigger storyline.

33

You’re right. And it’s not just the time they’ve spent on it. They introduced this a hell of a long time ago, back in the middle of season five I think. Which means that, whatever this ties into, they had to think of it at least as far back as when they were writing season five.

Which means it must be something epic.

34

Whacking Vito would make Tony look worse? Why? In the first season he whacked Big Pussy, one of the most likeable characters in the show. He had Vito whack John Jr. And he killed Steve Buscemi, who was another well-liked character.

Vito’s a slime. He tried to stiff Tony out of his money, he laid down hints that Tony should be whacked while he was sick, he’s murdered all kinds of people, and he was very threatening to Meadow’s boyfriend (probably would have killed him if he hadn’t been Meadow’s boyfriend). Killing him will be no different than any of the other hits Tony has pulled off.

35

All those deaths were consistent with a moral code–a twisted moral code, mind you, but a moral code–that we could all understand even if we don’t agree with it. It’s that same fascination we all have with mob stories, and how we come to root for people like Tony (come on, admit it, we all do) when we know logically he’s a bad guy.

Big Pussy ratted to the Feds. Tony B. put the whole family in danger by killing Phil’s brother, a renegade act that put Tony in a completely untenable position. He killed Tony B. to save him from torture and to do the right thing by the rest of the family. Jackie Jr. killed a made guy.

To kill Vito, not because he’s sleazy, not because he threatened Meadow’s boyfriend, but because he’s gay, well, that’s a bit different. Maybe your perspective is the more common one, though. Just my opinion.

36

I’m going to play a bit of Devil’s Advocacy here regarding people Tony has killed or had killed:

Pussy - Pussy was actively engaged in an activity that would, if brought to its logical conclusion, lead to Tony being arrested and put in prison. He was actively working against Tony and the Family. He was a traitor, plain and simple. Regardless of whether it was objectively right for Tony to kill Pussy, it’s definitely something that people can understand and feel sympathetic towards. Your best friend betrays you and takes actions that will likely destroy your life. That’s bad.

Tony B - His crimes were essentially the same as Pussy’s. He knowingly and willingly took actions that he knew his cousin and Boss would not approve of. If it became known that he had performed those actions, his cousin and Boss would likely be enveloped in a shitstorm. He did it anyway. (I think Pussy’s transgression was worse, since he betrayed not just people but the very ideals that their society was based upon.) Moreover, as Stratocaster points out, Tony S. killed Tony B. so Phil wouldn’t get to torture him. That’s definitely a noble motive.

Ralphie - Ralphie was a great character, but I don’t think very many viewers sympathized with him in the slightest. Recall how he treated his stripper friend. The other mobsters didn’t even like him much. Even among scum, he stands out as scummy. So when Tony attacked Ralphie for destroying Tony’s horsie, the audience was definitely rooting for Tony to win. While killing someone because they hurt an innocent animal may well be taking things too far, it’s a hugely more sympathetic than beating and killing a stripper after emotionally abusing her. (And violating the codes of the social circle you run with while doing it!)

Jackie Jr. - This is harder to defend than the others. The audience will instinctively sympathize with being angry at betrayal or the murder of a pet. They will also understand that someone who kills a member of your group will need to be punished. But the killing isn’t planned (things just got out of hand), and the killer is a youngster, and he was doing something very similar to what Tony had done many years before. Moreover, his death would cause significant emotional pain for Meadow. Still, I think Tony gets an instinctive partial pass on this because he didn’t pull the trigger himself. Indeed, when he told Ralphie to get rid of Jackie Jr., he said it by not saying it. And Ralphie doesn’t even do the killing, it was Vito. So Tony is at least a couple of steps removed from the killing.

Also, I think most viewers simply didn’t sympathize with Jackie Jr. the way they do with Vito. Jackie Jr. grew up as the son of an important member of the mafia (for a while the acting boss of a family). He’s a bit of a prick, and thinks he’s tougher than he is. He’s similar to the “spoiled rich kid” archetype. Vito, on the other hand, has lived a lie for years. A single wrong move and his life as he knows it is over, one way or another. He has to have a wife and a girlfriend to keep suspicion away. He comes across as the “rough on the outside, but gentle on the inside” type, which instinctively gets sympathy.

I agree that in the overall scheme of things these are all bad people. They’re mobsters. They kill. They maim. They steal. Etc. But most of Tony’s killings thus far are easily understood and sympathized with, even if they’re not forgiven. If Tony kills Vito we may understand, but it will be difficult for us to sympathize.

37

My thoughts on it exactly!

To see Vito, who has been everywhere from some unidentified customer at a bakery (when Chris shot the guy in the foot for slow service) to Ralphie’s hitman to capo and now center stage guy with oodles of face time and a family, is to see more than just some rewards for being a good extra and background player. The insertion of the homosexual subtext when Finn caught him that morning has been hanging over the series for how many episodes?

I sense the Chase & Co. thinkers have wanted to make some additional statements about the whole “gays on TV and in the arts” issue beyond even the insinuations that mobsters are ultra-conservative when it comes to sexual matters. Remember how Junior got blasted for the “…and cunnilingus have brought us to this” episode.

The fact that Tony tells Melfi how “TV keeps rubbing our noses in it” reinforces the notion that Vito’s ventures are to be played for a while longer with as much light-hearted gay-bashing as they can get away with. I almost fell out of my chair when the antiques shopowner told Vito he was a natural. Is this their homage to Queer Eye For The Straight Guy or a general statement that if you’re gay, no matter how many guys you’ve shot in the back of the head, you have a thing for pottery?

No matter how the New Hampshire village scene plays out, I expect to see a few more light-hearted pokes at the gay community before it’s over. It makes me wonder if there’s been a rash of hate mail from gays like there was with all the Italian Defamation crowd earlier. If so, I think the message may be “Don’t fuck with David Chase on issues!”

Love it.

38

Great show. Went great with my Cheerios this Tuesday morning.

Vito Vito Vito, I’m afraid you’re not long for this world. I wish you the best, but you know as well as I do that you’re in deeeeeeeeep shit. “Live free or die” my ass. New Hampshire ain’t safe for you.

Tony is struggling, trying to become a “good” guy while leading a mob family. Not exactly easy. These guys live on principle and precedent and if you start changing it, they get unhappy. Quell the ranks my friend, hold control. You’re in too deep.

Meadow, god you’re hot. But you’re also connected to one of the most prominent crime lords in New Jersey, I doubt you’re going to enjoy your time at the law firm. Though I do have to admit, it would be very very interesting to see her turn into a consigliere. That would be awesome in my opinion. Tony and Meadow, owning New Jersey. :wink:

AJ, I’m waiting to see you do something stupid, you’re about due. It’s been a while since something monumental rolled your way and you jumped on it.

Chris, you were pretty smart this episode. Perhaps your wisening up and maturing and maybe you’re not the fuck up we’ve always believed you to be. Or maybe this was a fluke and you’re going to pursue that movie further. I can only hope. I’d love for the series finale to be the Sopranos in Hollywood for the movie premiere…

Carmella + Daddy Dunce - You two… I don’t even have words. Shame on you for not trying to be legitimate, and taking the short cut. Shame shame shame! Fix the problems, bite the losses and move on.

I’m curious to see who these “Tailors” are. If it’s anyone we’ve previously been introduced to or not. And if they fuck it up or what. Personally I would have just found some punk on the corner and passed it down Tony -> Silvi -> Chris -> Schmuck 1 -> Schmuck 2 and had them do the job, then killed schmuck 1 to cut the chain. But that’s just me. Eh, fuggedaboutit.

39

I figure Phil is going to Kill Vito, Tony will try to get back for having a made guy killed without the go ahead. Tony going to war over Vito is not going to sit well with most of his crew. Paulie is pretty upfront with his hatred of Vito’s “transgression” Silvio doesn’t care about that but was absolutely pragmatic about the effect Vito would have on the business side. He won’t want to see that harmed over Vito.

Christopher has been bucking back quite a bit lately and may turn his back on Tony if it means he can advance himself by it.

Tony’s position was bouyed for a short while with the beating he layed down last week, this week he may lose that by backing Vito.

This looks like the kind downfall worthy of shakespeare where a king does something he feels is right qnd doesn’t waver despite the advice of his trusted men. It finally gets to the point he alienates himself from his followers and it all ends nastily.

Of course maybe nothing of the sort happens. But NY and NJ have been itching for a fight. It would take something as petty as this to escalate it.

40

I don’t get the Chris was smart this episode.

The figuring out the 3 o’clock phone call was about being spotted wasn’t a huge leap of logic considering what he now knew. If I let my six year old watch the show (and I wouldn’t!) he could have figured it out too.
His line about the guy having a dog was the most hilarious non sequetor ever. (And if you don’t believe it was supposed to be played for a laugh check out how long the beat is before the conversation begins again)

The point is that the “Muslim terrorists don’t behave that way” stuff is utter BS. Using Chris to parrot the usual crap of how these guys are supposed to be so devout only makes it funnier. Remember those guys who flew planes into buildings? How pius were they when they went to the nudie bars before hand?

I’m guessing the two fellows may very well turn out to be afilliated.

Oh yeah,
I almost forgot my favorite slam the writers threw in. So the Sopranos voted Bush/Chenney. Hilarious.