Hey SHAKES, if you think the only proper sexual activity is that which results in procreation, then you’d better stop masturbating. No one ever got pregnant from a handjob.
Count me in as yet another person who doesn’t get the argument that biology=love. Since we’re being anecdotal in this thread, here’s mine.
My senior year of college I rented a room in a house, from a family. Both spouses were women. They had a thirteen year old daughter. This wasn’t a case of adoption - they’d been together for sixteen years and although only one of them had given birth to her, they had had their daughter together, as parents. Let me repeat that: both women had been parents to their daughter for her entire life and both loved her as much as any parents would. They both went to her plays and concerts and recitals and parent-teacher nights. They both disciplined her when she acted out. They equality of their parenting was not noticeably different from that of my mom and dad, who are my biological parents. Their house was pretty ordinary. They had dogs and ordered in pizza when they didn’t feel like cooking and worried about money and everything normal you’d expect from a regular family.
The fact that my mom gave birth to me doesn’t mean that I have a stronger bond with her than I do with my dad. And the fact that only one of my housemates had given birth to their daughter does not negate her parental relationship with her other mom.
OK listen people I’ve already said if I could go to the poles tomorrow and vote FOR gay marriage I would.
I’ve already said gays shouldn’t be discriminated agaisnt.
I’ve talked about acceptance.
And you STILL want to call me a bigot? Fine. But at least if I were president you all would be geting exactly what you want with the whole gay marriage thing.
That’s what I mean when I say “If you go around throwing the word “BIGOT!” to loosely; it looses its sting or meaning.”
As per the rest of my last post; All those things are just things the way that I see it. ME personaly, I promise you, my personal views of the world will have no effect on your life! Jeesh…
And BTW to all those who are trying to imply that I need to think like them or I’m a piece of shit; well…
YOU CAN KISS MY BIG BIGOTED ASS!!
(I didn’t say everything I wanted to say in my last post, as I was on my way out the door. So I have more to say to SHAKES)
First, I’d just like to say, spectrum, that was a very reasonable, well-thought out post. Much better than your usual flipping out.
SHAKES-the white picket fence and house in the suburbs is actually pretty new. In fact, the vast majority of my ancestors didn’t even have a home of their own, or land that didn’t belong to someone else. Does that mean that they didn’t have a “true, meaningful family life?”
I’ve known people whose biological parents didn’t even deserve to be called human, much less parents. And I’ve known people whose adopted parents were as close as one could get-even if they weren’t related by blood. Biology isn’t everything. And yes-even people with both adopted AND blood children. One of my great aunts has an adopted son and a biological daughter. As far as I know, she loves them both equally-in fact, to even bring up the fact that he’s adopted would probably hurt her, because as far as she’s concerned, he’s her son and that’s that.
As spectrum pointed out, your opinions do NOT equal fact. And you’re either extremely dense or extremely dishonest, if you’re gonna keep saying you can’t understand why people are calling you a bigot. THAT I believe, is what pisses me off the most-not the heinous things you’ve said, but that you can’t or won’t understand WHY they’re so fucking HURTFUL.
I’m tired of people who pull this shit-say nasty, hateful things, and then turn around and act all shocked when people are hurt and angry. “Why are you picking on me? I’m just telling you the truth!” Or, “It’s just my opinion-you have no right to hate me!”
Siege, that was one fine post.
[we poosted at the same time]
Thats where (I think) your wrong. You have to understand no matter how enlightened this world becomes there will ALWAYS be a difference of opinion. People will always have different beliefs. I think whats impotant, is that we accept THAT fact. If we don’t, no one will ever find a common ground.
Charming.
SHAKES, did you read Spectrum’s strikingly level-headed post? Did you try to understand it? Are you going to address it, or is this all you’ve got? Because I’ve gotta say, this isn’t really helping you.
You tried to argue, through analogy, that heterosexuality is innately superior to homosexuality. Your only proof was your own experience. If you’re not trying to say that your experience is universal, why are you offering it as proof at all? Can’t you come up with something better - statistics, studies, man-on-the-street interviews? It’s not like they aren’t doing the research. But that’s the argument you gave us, so that’s the argument that people refuted. Rather than respond to their arguments, you reply - “Well, that’s not what I said.” But it is what you said, SHAKES. It’s what you said, and you can either back it up or concede that you could be mistaken. Or you can have a tantrum, if you think it’ll help.
And I’d like to see you address the idea that homosexuality is a disease. That’s a big freaking claim to be throwing around there, son, and it needs some serious proof to back it up. Either that, or it needs a serious apology for it to be excused. Ignoring it? Probably not a wise move.
Well, big fucking D’UH.
That’s never going to change. What’s also not going to change is that people are going to think you’re an asshole for some of your opinions.
Seriously-if people want to believe things like say, gays are unnatural and a disease, that black people are stupid criminals, that women are overly emotional children, or that Jews are all greedy-they’re going to believe it.
BUT…they’re still bigots. If they’re going to believe those things and express them, then they should at least accept that.
Don’t like it? Tough shit.
No one is saying that you have to change your opinions. Rather, people are saying that they think your opinions are bigoted and carefully explaining why they think so.
That’s it. You’re free to keep thinking of homosexuality as a mental illness if you so choose. And every time you say so, other people are free to tell you that you’re wrong. That’s sort of what happens on a discussion board – people offer opinions, and others offer opinions on those opinions. Don’t whine because people think your opinions are stupid: you can either change them, defend them, or talk about other things. You’ve shown a bit of promise with the first, very very little with the second, so maybe you’d be happier trying the third one?
This can be a great place to learn what life is like from many different perspectives, if you’re willing to listen. Even if you don’t change your mind about homosexuality, I hope that the stories and opinions shared here would at least give you cause to re-evaluate some of the things you’ve said.
Siege, that was lovely. Hope you find that person to sit on the couch with…
Well FINALLY! something I can agree with!
You know what? I’ll even accept the bigot remarks.
Just in the fact that yeah, I’m opinionated. Going back on some of my post I can see how people may have thought I offer my opinions as fact. Alright, my bad, sorry.
One thing I’m NOT though is intolerant.
Your equation of homosexuality as disease, your continued assertion that gay marriage would somehow undermine the marriages of your sainted grandparents and your statement that “gay love” is not equal to “hetero love” all epitomize intolerance.
Yeah. Well. So? You can have any opinion you want. You can hold any belief you want. Go ahead. Knock yourself out. Don’t expect everyone to automatically agree that your opinion is the only possible opinion, though. And, really, don’t be surprised when you say, basically, “I’m not a bigot, but I’m going to say some really bigotted stuff.”
Also quoting you, in paraphrase:
“Being gay is a disease.”
“Gay marriages will destroy straight marriages.” (Your grandparents’, IIRC)
Yeah, you’re intolerant. If not, you’ve got the communication skills of a pithed anchovie.
Guin:“we poosted at the same time”
and you know how hard that is
SHAKES would do well to seek out a “christian” message board where he will be applauded for his views.
Let’s replace SHAKES’ comments about gays and replace them with equivalent comments about minorities and see what we get:
I think we can sum this up as, “Fine, they can have whatever rights, but I still think they’re inferior.” Maybe you aren’t as bad as Bush then, but this attitude that you’re superior still makes you bigoted. What would you do if your son turned out to be gay? Would you tell him, “I love you son, but you’re inferior”? What do you think Mary Cheney’s relationship is like with her father?
Even though it would bring the sacred institiution of heterosexual marriage crashing to the ground? Why?
Although I don’t 100% agree with the whole gay marriage thing; (as I’ve said before) I feel the the need for NON-discrimination out weighs that.
BTW, I don’t think it will undermine it; all I said is, it would change MY personal image of it.
Is that really so bad?
Actually, you said it would ‘crap all over’ specific, existing heterosexual marriages (or have you retracted that statement now?).
Sorry if this seems too pointed; I believe you’re going through a difficult time at the moment.
Are we getting anywhere, or is it time for DNFTT? This is a person whose profile lists “drinking” as one of his interests.