So let him get reelected and then impeach? I like it! Well, I like the impeach part.
Perfect plan! Forward it to Pelosi.
Article 1, Section 3
I second what DigitalC said and agree with this, and it explains why the investigation was unlikely to result in a push for impeachment. The average nonpartisan voter, the kind that really move the proverbial needle, do not give a shit. They were probably pissed that the Mueller Show preempted Judge Judy.
Even Watergate by itself didn’t bring down Nixon. It was the delayed pullout of Nam and the exposed lies about it; the energy crisis and the economic tailspin the country went into after that; and the cherry on top, the Watergate tapes themselves, full of vulgarities, racism, antisemitism, and blatant admissions of corruption captured on hours of tape. There was simply no way for Nixon to escape that kind of shit storm.
Trump, meanwhile, has an economy not seen in several decades. We haven’t gotten bogged down in any wars. I obviously see things quite differently than you and other conservatives in my assessment that we are heading for major turbulence ahead, but until it actually happens…it’s admittedly nothing more than just shaking a Magic 8 ball in the eyes of most people.
I share my believe with the progressives on this board that Trump is an unmitigated disaster in the making, but I don’t for a moment expect the average person to come around until disaster actually strikes. And it’s foolish to live in that kind of alternate political universe. We have to attack Trump where he can be exposed, as frustratingly slow as that process can be. Our problem is we want the flashy knockout; in reality, the way to beat Trump is get inside and work the body relentlessly. Corner him. Cut off the ring. Bruise him and weaken him blow by blow Julio Cesar Chavez style. That’s what Nancy Pelosi’s trying to do…if her foot soldiers will just have the patience and discipline to help let her do it.
Ummm, impeach?
True. But you can only do the part you can do. If the House Democrats believe Trump has committed “high crimes and misdemeanors” then they should spell out those crimes, and the evidence supporting them, in plain language. Then vote to impeach him on the basis of those crimes.
So the worst result is…like where we are now, as you see it. Because they’re already saying that.
I believe that’s not the case. This currently isn’t “he said, she said” where the Republicans are saying one thing, and the Democrats are saying something else. Trump and the GOP are saying “exoneration,” and the Dems are just shrugging and not saying much of anything.
What’s the public to make of that? I think it’s pretty obvious. Most people aren’t following it very closely, and if one side is saying Trump has been exonerated, and the other side isn’t contradicting them, exoneration wins in a landslide. Apparently the whole Trump/Russia thing really wasn’t a big deal after all.
So yeah, if I’m Trump, I’m celebrating my ass off.
Here’s what impeachment is good for: people will start paying attention.
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The impeachment inquiry will have hearings - not big attention-grabbers.
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Then impeachment resolutions will be drafted, and the Judiciary Committee will debate those resolutions. If 1974 is any guide, most people will be paying attention by this point. The Judiciary Committee will vote on the resolutions, and that’ll be a big deal.
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Then the House as a whole will debate the resolutions that pass the Judiciary Committee. Yeah, people will be paying attention. They will hear the case laid out at once, that they’ve only gotten dribs and drabs of before. That won’t convince the hardcore 40%, but there’s nothing that can be done about that. Practically everyone else, OTOH - this is where we steal Pat Buchanan’s 1971 playbook, divide the country into two halves, and get the way bigger half on our side.
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Then the Senate does nothing, but that’s out of our control. Inaction won’t translate into exoneration, in the face of massive evidence of Trump’s criminality.
4*) Alternatively, the Senate has a trial. If they do, two things:
a) The House impeachment managers will get to lay out the case for removal on the Senate floor: the stage keeps getting bigger, and the number of people tuning it out diminishes to the number of people who tune out politics altogether.
b) Vulnerable GOP Senators are forced to cast a vote. Have fun, Susan Collins, Cory Gardner, Martha McSally, Thom Tillis, Joni Ernst. You can piss off your base, or you can piss off the Dems. Your call.
Like I said, I don’t think we get to (a) and (b), but per the above, I think it will be to our advantage in 2020 if we do.
And it’s also taking a stand for what’s right. Believe it or not, people like that sorta shit. Hell, people respect leaders who take a stand, period, unless it’s a particularly evil or repugnant stand.
Yeah, then I’ll teach my grandmother how to knit.
“Can we make the case to the country and does the country benefit going through an impeachment if it’s going to be unsuccessful? And we know in the Senate, at least, it would be unsuccessful,” Schiff told CNN reporter John Berman.
“So I’m not there yet but I’m keeping an open mind and I may get there,” he continued.
Adam Schiff, about an hour ago
See how uncrazy and not radical we can be? Just keeping an open mind!
Heck to the no! You campaign on issues that people care about, and when you beat him then prosecute. Otherwise, if the bastard wins he gets to skate based on statutes of limitation.
[James Earl Jones voice]
"We are the United States of America. We don’t do that sort of thing!"
You’re making predictions that have little evidence to support them. If Trump were capable of being impeached, his approval numbers would be in the toilet. And more importantly, Senators would be scared to defend him. But neither of those things is true. The country has had plenty of time to pay attention, RTF. It simply isn’t. Sorry.
I think the Dems can campaign their hearts out and he will still get elected. By dirty tricks and the Russians, if nothing else. I hate that, but I think it’s true.
I’m not so sure. I think the worst thing we can do is campaign on something that most people don’t care about instead of the things people do care about? I think it’s easier for Donald to act the martyr than it is to explain what he’s going to do about health care.
Speaking of assertions with no evidence to support them.
Hell, “If Trump were capable of being impeached, his approval numbers would be in the toilet” doesn’t even have a clear meaning.
Who said anything about time? I agree that the country isn’t paying attention; the Dems haven’t given it reason to. They could have made a big deal about the Mueller Report right when it came out, instead they shrugged. That signaled to non-political-junkies that there was no point in paying attention to it.
That ship’s long since sailed; you can change people’s minds while they’re still in flux, but it’s really hard to do so when they’ve already reached a conclusion. The Dems must either go after Trump big time over something different but damning, or impeach. Otherwise the country will assume they’re not doing jack shit, which would be the case actually.
Bob, and the voters will have four years to forget why they hated the ACA. As time passes a system that has served most people pretty well will be better entrenched.
I don’t get what you’re saying.
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If it ain’t flashy, nobody will notice.
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What, specifically, is Pelosi trying to do that will make a difference with voters next year?
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Nice boxing analogy, but what’s the analogy refer to? I don’t see cornering, any cutting off the ring, any bruising and weakening Trump blow by blow.
Nice fantasy, though.
1974 isn’t any guide, no, so the rest of your conclusions are all wrong.
People will sort of pay attention, but not the way they did in 1974. In 1974, some Republicans actually changed their minds. If you just look at the plain facts of what has been happening NOW, in the last three years, it is quite clear no Republicans will change their minds, or no more than one or two. Trump’s criminal, bigoted behaviour is what they want, and they will stick by him no matter what. Impeachment hearings would make no difference at all - if anything they would boost Trump’s support.
What would happen in the real world we actually inhabit is the hearings would result in nothing substantial; a vote would be taken and the Senate would would hold a vote in which Trump would, predictably, get every Republican to acquit; it would make no difference whatsoever what the evidence said. He would then declare victory. All Republican talking heads would say, with a complete straight face, that it was now proven he did nothing wrong. Trumpists would believe this and would turn out in stronger numbers than in 2016, convinced the Deep State had been once again defeated.
Trump in the last three years has proven beyond any doubt of question, with mounds of evidence, that he is a liar, a criminal, a racist, profoundly disloyal to his country, and the worst President of modern times. He’s a rapist, too. And yet his support is as strong as ever. You cannot rely on democracy and the rule of law in a country where half the people do not want those things.
The boarding call went out when Trump called Mexicans rapists. The ship sailed with a happy crew of 63M when the Access video came out. All well before Mueller showed up on the scene to underwhelming success.
I’ve seen reporting that suggests that there will be no impeachment, however the timing of ongoing house investigations will be such that the bad news will flood the zone in 2020. This is why the House appears to be dragging their feet in calling up witnesses such as McGhan and Lewandowski, as well as trying to fast track the disclosure of Trump’s tax returns. There are also 14 ongoing investigations into various aspects of Trump’s life and conduct, referred by the Mueller investigation to outside jurisdictions.
That seems to be the Democrat’s game plan. Allegedly. I hope it fucking works.
Trump’s diet made him totally constipated. Pence snuck up behind him and whispered “Deutsche Bank”. Cured!
So in the end, Mueller is bound by the same kind of gag order that binds Trump’s whores. Also, every witness that Congress calls to testify is similarly silenced. Surely that amounts to obstruction of justice? But it doesn’t matter. The AG is held in criminal contempt of Congress, and that doesn’t matter either, the DOJ says they won’t do anything about it.
The law seems not to matter. It is as if the authority lies with some invisible 3rd party, some Super Mob that had secretly threatened to kill everyone’s family if anyone talks. Some massive Epstein style blackmail con job that has literally everybody at the top by the balls. But that’s crazy.
Humor me folks and tell me you think that’s crazy, too.
The Republicans do not want so-called “criminal, bigoted behavior.” That’s ludicrous. What the Republicans want, as do the Democrats, is someone nominally of their party sitting in the White House in order to issue favorable executive orders and appoint members to the all important judiciary.
Since the courts have been turned into the ultimate prize nothing is held back to control them.
Who’s expecting that? You must be rebutting someone else’s post.
“I’ll take ‘Lame Attempts at False Equivalence’ for $200, Alex.” :rolleyes: